When people say "OMG 150 TIMES" it usually means about 9.

it's actually 25 kills of Tyrannus. I can't begin to tell you how many aborted runs that end right as idiots try to rush through the vrykul part up the hill I've gone through.

FEELS like 150.

Any way to check how many times you've had a tank cause a wipe...resulting in everyone leaving? .

25 kills and it's never dropped for you? That acutally sucks, you should have it by now. RNG isn't always your friend. I had to runk Ick about 12 times before he dropped his thumb. I had the Beheader for my offspec long before I got the thumb for my main spec. I had the Onyxian blood talisman which is a higher ilvl, but I don't think it's all that great of a tank trinket. I'd rather take the avoidance and slightly helpful on-use ability over a tiny bit of resist and health gain. I'd like to get the Scarab from ToC 25, maybe Corpse Tongue coin but whatever, not too concerned.

I'm not spending frost badges on a trinket until I have some T10 set bonuses.

Pally 2t10 is pretty meh, and I think more groups would care about a 264 trinket vs a blue 200 compared to him getting his set bonus.

Yes, 2 251 pieces would be nice, but the quicker he gets into icc, the quicker he starts getting badges faster.

It DID drop once. But for some godawful reason that I still don't comprehend, hunter needed on it as well, and won of course.

4pc T9 pally is pretty baller and I would recommend using that and picking up frost badge trinket + cloak. (assuming you're talking about pally tank)

Half my 10man group just got their icc mounts tonight, ill get mine next week as i got put into the second group last week and miss out on hm sindy. Pretty excited.

May finally square off with the lk tomorrow. Would be my first time. Think the guilds 10 man can only get to phase 2 or 2.5.

Any tips on not looking like a complete noob for rdps? I tend to do well with just focusing another rdps and sticking near them unless they get a debuff or something, stick to that strategy?

Really bad idea. Just watch a kill video. Don't stand in shadow traps, don't stand in front of the copies of raidmembers (forgot the name), group up on valkyr phase, make 100% sure to run out with defile and not stand in the debuff if someone else drops it close.

As far as that prot pala build goes, I don't understand why you would just take 1 point in POJ. The second point is where the gravy is at, surely you would rather have 2% extra overall dmg than a free boot enchant, especially because boot enchants are terrible. Besides that, runspeed is essential for tanks that have to pick up mobs, kite bosses, etc.

Also, the last couple of points make NO sense. You pick 1 point in 1% crit, 1 point in another 1% crit, but you don't max your 2% dmg talents?

I cannot think of ANY situation in a game where 2% crit beats 4% overall dmg. Hell, even if you are not fighting undeads like in ICC you will get more output with crusade. The one point in benediction seems terrible as well, and I would pick improved BOM over the tier 2 judgement crit talent as there are more sources of that boss debuff than specced warriors or ret paladins in raids.

Check these videos if you need help, they are great for learning this encounter.

Watch Part 1 and 2 of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er2uUCcbP38

I'll check those out, thanks. I have definitely read about the fight and watched a video or two, but I was never watching from a DPS point of view.

It's not hardmode, so I didn't think there would be shadow traps. Maybe I'm wrong.

As for the spec, you and I seem to be making different assumptions about his capabilities, opportunities, and situation. A tank definitely needs some form of movement increase, and that spec would provide it in a cheap fashion without the need to use an expensive-ish enchant (doesn't sound like he has a lot of money to waste aorn) on the 200 level boots he has, or on his next piece, which sounds like it was going to be a 226 pair. 232 and up should come quickly, and it sounds like he has enough problems getting stuff enchanted, so that would be a way to ensure he always has a movement speed boost.

I picked HotC and a point in benediction because, well, first of all you have to get enough points to get into tier 3 of ret talents and another point in improved judgements would actually be a waste of a talent point.

Second, the assumption that someone else is going to provide that buff isn't necessarily a wise one. In a 25 man raid, yeah, someone's most likely going to have that buff (ret pally, assassination rogue, elemental shaman, etc), but if he's just doing 5 man heroics and only now starting to break into 10 mans, it's entirely likely that there may be no one else providing those buffs. Or if he's off-tanking he can be providing the buffs/debuffs on mobs that don't have the full attention of dps.

Last, say he's the only pally in the raid. Perhaps he won't be buffing might at all. Maybe his raid leader will want kings on everyone..? 2 points in IBoM is definitely a waste in that situation.

I added a point in Sanctity of Battle because he said he was having trouble with single target threat, and if he's pulling with exorcism, that will give him a 5% buff to damage with that pull. Maybe it's just the raids I've seen, but it's usually within the first few seconds that a tank will lose aggro on a random dps who crits or gets a fat trinket proc, and then they're dead. If he can stop that happening, I'm thinking an alive dps'er will provide more dps than a 2% increase in his dps.

I'm not going for min/max here with that spec. I'm going for usefulness to a tank in a non-core raid group when members are not static. Sort of a swiss army knife of builds that can be helpful in many situations, but isn't going to be 100% right for all of them. I believe it's more right for his situation than using a spec that's right for the main tank of a focused 25 man guild with ICC on farm status and all the same raid members every night.

Someone said something about shadow traps, unless you are facing heroic lk that does not apply I assume you are talking about regular 10.

The fight is set up in 3 phases and a transition phase that repeats.

Phase 1 as dps is just standing there nuking the boss, no need to assist. As dps you only need to worry about necrotic plague, if you get this you need to run to the OT mobs and have it dispelled then run back.

The transition phase begins when LK is at 70%, LK will run into the center of the platform and will no longer require a tank. When this happens the entire raid needs to move to the edge of the platform or get hit by AOE damage. Being clumped in a single spot is bad because the LK is channeling a cone damage effect throughout the transition so you should form a loose line with the OT+mobs at the end. Be mindful of staying away from the OT or you can get the plague which will one shot you.

One dps will be assigned nuking incoming orbs, usually a burst range, don't get hit by them. The rest of the dps are on the 3 raging spirits that spawn one after another, the spirits have frontal cone damage so always be at their back. One spirit will still be up typically when this transition phase ends you will continue to burn it till dead before switching back to LK. When the transition ends you need to move back in immediately or you will fall off the platform (still be mindful of the orbs and spirits while running).

Phase 2 requires group coordination. A valkyr will swoop in and grab someone requiring stuns/snares so you can kill it in time, there is a timer for this and the general strat is to be grouped in the center for these. The LK will be casting defile on a timer which everyone needs to spread out for. Defile targets someone and they end up dropping a black pool, every tick of damage it does to anyone will cause it to spread, the reason for spreading out as you can see if 4 people get a tick it will expand so rapidly that it will quickly cover the platform.

The hard thing about this is you have two strats fighting each other, spread out for defile, group up for valkyr. Just pay attention to the LK cast bar and watch timers so you know when a valkyr is swooping in, a good leader will call out where -not- to be so there is always a safe spot to group up for the next valkyr.

Another phase transition occurs at 40% and because the outer ring fell earlier its really important for the raid to already be near the edge so you can immediately jump to it when it reforms.

This phase transition will have 4 spirits instead of 3, again be mindful of the cone attack and pulling agro and be spread in a loose line for the LK's cone attack. Be ready to get off the outer ring which will collapse at the end of transition.

Phase 3 finish all but one raging spirit which the OT will hold for the remainder of the fight and swap back to LK. No more valkyrs but defile is still present. Peroidically and right away at the start of this phase 1 person will be ported into another room (frostmourne) and will face a solo encounter*. Instead of valkyrs there will be a bunch of spirits that form over the LK, ignore them until they begin to descend. If everyone is spread out no one will take a bunch of explosions from the spirits and is easily healed through. Rinse and repeat until done (10% health).

At 10% the LK kills everyone, don't release you'll sit through some RP and then be given a rez after a minute. Take the rez and pew pew, there are no more offensive LK abilities from this point. Enjoy the cinematic or have fun by telling people, "i've heard a lot of people d/c right after killing him".

* If this is you, you need to dps and/or interrupt the hostile target or you will die and wipe the raid. Make sure you know all interrupts your class has.

You completely misunderstood me. I am advocating 1 point in faster judges, 2 points in imp BOM and 2 points in the 2% crit debuff, 2 points in runspeed since runspeed is the best thing for tanks to have, and as many points as possible in crusade instead of crit talents sinds that provides more dps and thus tps.

Also, if he doesn't want to pay EXPENSIVE boot enchants he shouldn't expect to get into any pug.

So you would suggest something like this or this?

(Didn't even look at my pally's spec, I do have 3/3 crusade )

Yes, exactly those two is what I would run. SoC is great for heroics and trash but the other is better for raiding obviously.

I would still go for SoC though because minmaxing isn't needed at all for normal modes.

You are right about the shadowtraps btw, I forgot that those only came on hardmode. My old guild actually gives huge -DKP for getting hit by traps btw, apparently they are tired of the fail :P.

Tried SoC in a 5 man, out dpsed everyone else in the group, lol.

We downed to LK, but didn't fight him, saving that for next week. Had a healer who could not be bothered to do what the raid leader asked him to do all night, dunno what to do about that. I'm new to the guild and so is he, I don't know if I'd be ratting him out by pointing it out to the guild leader. But it did cause a few deaths throughout the night, so maybe I should.

Yell at him in vent?

I have a feeling when I get home from Vegas there will be a solid idea of when Cataclysm will be coming out. I am also giddy at the idea of a mobile auction house.

I'll be back in ohhhh 45 days or so.

4th lvl 80 incoming

I have mixed feelings on the mobile auction house. I think that sometimes I'll be motivated to be on there all the time, constantly trying to make money, but the rest of the time I'll just be pissed off that someone can undercut me from their phone without even logging in.

It seems like the kind of thing that's convienent for a lot of people, like if you want to find a cheap hilt you can always be on the watch, but it's going to benefit the people that have no life the most. I can see casuals (like myself) that want to make some gold through something like JC getting pissed off that it's just that much easier to constantly undercut. But then again, the super hardcore ones (like I think either Gimik or Raindek talked about a guildie that spent 24/7 on the AH and never even played) are going to just do it in-game.

Finally got the beheader on my DK...but no luck with my pala for wrist chopper or rimefang's claw. Go figure. ;P.

Grats on the Beheader. I've seen the Claw drop plenty of times. The chopper I actually had once but ended up selling it because I figured the sword was bettr/just as good, and was already enchanted. This was before I thought about maybe having different gear for different situations.

I queued up as DPS yesterday while I did some dailys. I got put in a HoR and the tank immediately left. The healer followed. I said, "ok, I'll tank it" and we re-queued. We got a new healer and a new DPS. The new healer immediately left. We requeued again and finally got a group to start the instance. I have to say, I hate tanking HoR because of the constant mix of ranged/melee trash. But I thought let's give it a shot, maybe the axe will drop and I can put Mongoose on it and see how I like it compared to Blood Draining on the Claw that I already have. We wiped 4 groups in to the first boss. I asked if we could stay behind the wall for a couple extra seconds this time to let me get aggro on the caster, but the healer left group before we even flew back to the instance. Kind of a frustrating encounter. I decided to leave the group after that.

I logged on later and queued as tank, and got put in the Oculus. At the time I was wondering who I pissed off at Blizzard to get my two least favorite instances that day. But the run went well and a couple of the guys got their "Make it Count" achievement.

Thanks. ^^. I've had the claw drop a bazillion times on my DK..when I don't need it. Lol. I'm sure it'l come sooner or later.

And that's why I hate tanking or DPSing any of the ICC dungeons..players leave..non-stop. Most of the time for no really good reason. xP

Tho Oculus = greatness. An extra 2 badges and some gems is always nice.

The only time i have players leave when i'm healing or tanking is when they piss me off and I let them die.

Just out of curiosity, what would people here consider the easiest class to dps with?

I'm sure it's a question that's been asked many, many times before, but I was just kind of thinking about this the other day. Which class has the least dots to keep track of, the least cooldowns, the simplest rotation, the least buttons to press in general.

I ask because watching the learn2playwow tutorial videos on youtube, the guy plays a warrior, it seems like warriors have all of 2 abilities to keep track of.

DKs have too many runes and stuff to keep track of, mages (not counting frost here, I mean viable forms of dps in a raid) have lots of CDs, feral druids have a complicated dot/buff upkeep system, hunters seem mostly about tracking spell timers if I'm remembering right, rogues is all energy management and buff upkeep, shadow priests are fairly simple, just dot upkeep with a simple rotation, locks I really only know about destro but they're not too bad either..

Obviously I could go on and on (assuming I'm not way off base here), but what is the opinion of this forum irt easiest and simplest class/spec combo to do max dps with?

I play a moonkin ( Heal / Boomkin ) and it's pretty easy. Insect Swarm, Moonfire, wrath wrath wrath wrath wrath wrath wrath wrath °crit % proc° starfire, starfire, starfire, Insect Swarm, Moonfire, starfire, starfire, °dmg % proc° wrath, wrath, wrath, wrath, wrath, wrath, wrath...

Even if the normal routine is more like : Insect swarn, Moonfire °free spell proc° Hurrikane °free spell proc° Hurrikane °free spell proc° Hurrikane °free spell proc° Hurrikane °free spell proc° Hurrikane °free spell proc°