Since polls apparently blow really hard in vB, I guess instead of asking 6 separate questions, I can only do one "question" with up to 10 options - so, please only pick one option for each pair of responses.

Now that MW3 has been out for a couple weeks and we've all had a chance to dive in and get a feel for what it's about, I'm curious what people think about the changes it's made compared to MW2. Feel free to expand on your answers to the poll questions.

Also, no trolling will be tolerated ITT. Everyone's opinion is valid; just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they're terrible at the game or something. If you want to attack what they're saying, attack their logic.

Some other points to consider that MW3 wins by default:
- Theater mode
- Added gametypes (kill confirmed, mostly)

So long for a FPS forum

I feel like I still need a few more weeks, at least until they fix the lag. I just had a fun game followed by the same game on the same map where it was horrible just cuz of the lag. The lag is the biggest factor making everything about mw3 suck, if that gets fixed then it would be a tighter race imo. As is Id say mw2.

lag/ maps are the biggest reason I like mw2 better.

I think I'll get used to the maps eventually. Hopefully they fix the lag and I know it's still early, but it was never this bad in mw2 or blops even at launch

Alright I have played both enough now that I think I can make some solid contribution here.

Overall I think this game is head and shoulders above MW2 already and that is with the glitches, lag and spawn problems. MW2 had these problems at launch also but this game has a much better base that when these problems are fixed this game will be amazing.

Primary
MW3 wins here. The uniqueness and balance of most of the weapons is awesome. MW2 had too many unusable weapons and pretty clear cut "best" guns for every class. This one is much more balanced inside the classes but LMGs need some buffs to be usable and Sniper Rifles need some nerfs. That being said game was released 2 weeks ago and as long as they don't ignore these problems I think the guns will find a nice balance. These is just so much more they can do with them now. Gun Ranking and perks are also waaaayyyy better in this game. Golden guns are a bit too easy to get but they still take nearly 1/2 of a prestige's worth of EXP to earn so that still a lot of time. Also stop 1v1s from asking "headshots?" every ****ing game.

Secondary
Much more fun and balanced secondary weapons. Shotguns did not belong here at all. I also like the grenade launchers they added and the guns they kept.

Maps
Big edge to MW2. Maps aren't actually that small in 3 but they all play very small. No real balance between small/medium/large maps where I am thinking about which class to take depending on map. I just grab w/e I am leveling and go with it where in MW2 I had different classes for different maps. I miss that a bit and hopefully IW does something about it in the first map pack.

Perks
MW3 by a landslide. No commando, no danger close(though that might work in this game), no lightweight. With the exception of Assassin Pro being mega OP there are a lot of fun perks. Commando + lightweight was some of the most annoying **** in a game ever. Scavenger being able to resupply grenades + danger close + noob tubes made a lot of game types unplayable. Pro is way too easy to get in MW3 for all perks and I wish they would have brought the unlocking from BO over and made it a bit more in depth forcing people to do more to earn it. *I really liked that they got rid of stopping power and made it play more like a stopping power game. SP was OP and it wasn't worth using anything other than Cold blooded in its spot.

Equipment
MW3 by a lot again. Being able to deploy and pick up all of your equipment is awesome combined with the addition of some fun stuff MW2 didn't have. Trophy system was a great idea.

Explosives
Tie for now. MW2 explosives were pretty strong in the first place but danger close made them unbearable. Combined with no way to counter other than a really annoying tactical equipment and you by some measures had a broken game. That being said they basically made explosives useless in this game. A perk + equipment to combat already weak explosives puts them in a really bad spot. I think a small increase in damage and radius to just a little less of MW2 level would be perfect. Even MW2 level would be ok since they gave us options to combat them in MW3 with blast shield and trophy system.

Killstreak
MW3 duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Biggest gap here. IW did a great thing making individual streak for each class + 3 different types. They could use some tweaking to balance support a little but that was an awesome idea to have these seperations. Also like that killing air support adds to your streak. Much needed so that someone other than me is shooting **** down.

Gametypes*
MW3, Kill confirmed is a lot of fun and they kept all of the good games too.

5 Things I would do to make this game 10/10
1. Fix lag
2. Fix spawns
3. Balance guns OP/UP guns.
4. Improve Explosives
5. Add Maps that play big.

Did I miss anything?

Sir, the subforum is FPS strategy. This is a non-strat thread so it is clearly okay. Plus the kickball players will tell you how important it is to have 2+ threads in the main forum for a single game.

To expand on my choices:

Perks/customization/killstreaks: I gave it to MW3. I like the weapon proficiency system, I like moving double attachments to its own proficiency instead of having to use Bling - they give you a lot more options for how you can specialize your loadout and tailor it to your playing style without sacrificing perks to do so. And even though some of the new equipment is obviously way better than others (*cough* portable radar *cough*), I like the added flexibility - for example, the Trophy System seems like it blows but it would still be super useful for, say, taking B in most domination maps.

For killstreaks, specialist is ****ing awesome - it's super fun to get while also staying balanced. I also like the addition of the Support killstreak, but think it could have been executed better - it's super annoying to have stuff like stealth bomber, EMP, and escort airdrop in there. Any noob can get 18 kills in a domination game, and it's catering too much to ****ty casual players to say that anyone should be able to drop a stealth bomber or EMP or call in an airdrop that will rape anyone on the other team who tries to take the packages. The idea is a good one, and I also like that shooting down air support or capturing flags and stuff will add to your killstreaks to reward playing the game the right way instead of just killwhoring, but it gives too much power to bad players (and reduces the skill gap a little in doing so).

I don't have much to say about the assault package since I never use it, but my impressions are...
- Disappointed they axed the harrier, as it's probably the single most popular killstreak from MW2 and it's not like it was unbalanced or anything. Part of the reason I don't run Assault anymore is feeling like the removal of the harrier (combined with changes in gunplay and specialist being too much fun) is a significant obstacle to achieving higher killstreaks.
- Reaper is awesome.

Feel of guns: MW2 for me and it's not close. They ****ed up the SCAR and UMP beyond recognition, and whereas a case could be made for some 30-20 guns in MW2 over their 40-30 counterparts (for example, the ACR), there's really no debate when it comes to a lot of the weapons in MW3 - some guns are clearly very good, and most of the others are clearly very bad. There are a few SMGs worth using (P90/PP90/MP7), and a few ARs (ACR/G36/T95), and any other setup in those two categories is just massively suboptimal.

Not to mention that the elimination of Stopping Power means that in almost all instances it takes a couple more bullets to kill someone in MW3 than in MW2, which lowers the advantage good players have over bad players in gun battles. It also makes sniping ridic powerful since any sniper (on top of having the ability to never ever miss, since I swear they made quickscoping 5x easier in this game) now has extra time to get their easy one shot kill on you before you can kill them. I suppose IW probably wanted this outcome so that they could appeal more to casual gamers, but it's a kick in the nuts to anyone who plays this game remotely seriously.

The biggest shame about all this is that I actually really like the way the guns feel, at a basic level. The ACR and G36 have a pretty satisfying kick to them when you fire them that I think was missing from MW2. But, their effectiveness is too reduced for that to be any kind of saving grace.

Maps: MW2 and it's not close. They were bigger and less claustrophobic, and provided more opportunities to project force around areas of the map; MW3's maps seem to have been designed specifically to prevent this, with most maps having tons of corners and corridors that allow you to be shot from any angle at any time. My distaste for this has waned as I've learned the maps better and learned to use cover, but the simple fact that I've gone from having the RPD as my 2nd most-used gun in MW2 to having zero desire to ever use a LMG in MW3 explains everything that's wrong with the map structure. Movement speed is now crucial given how exposed you are at any given time, and yet they nerfed Marathon and removed Lightweight - it's like these maps should have been made for a different game, because they don't mesh well with MW3 gameplay at all. Again, I fear that this is a change that was made for casual players, as people getting unexpectedly shot more = bunching average KDRs closer to 1.0. It's definitely harder to dominate a map going 60-5 like we used to all the time against bad kids in MW2 and I feel like that's largely due to the way these maps are set up.

Connection strength: Across the board people are reporting lag issues that were pretty scarce in MW2. Even in games where I have a "good" connection I'll have stretches of ~10 seconds where I'm trying to run up a staircase only for the game to relocate my player off to the side or something every 3 seconds because the lag is so bad. Where we all used to get 4 bars pretty easily, now it's standard for everyone in the game to just have 3 bars. Maybe it will get better, but right now it blooooooows.

Overall: Even with its faults, I think MW2 was a better game at this point. It was definitely a better shipped game, and if MW3 has its lag issues fixed and gets some downloadable maps that are wayyyy better than this group, I could end up liking it more. MW2 was almost perfect though, and MW3 only should have required small tweaks to make it better - OMA tubing was awful (and fixed, which is good), but beyond that it didn't need much of an overhaul to still be an amazing game. The design team tried to do too much with MW3, and some of the most important overhauls simply do not work and make the game less fun. It's really unfortunate. And MW3 is still a really fun game, and one that I hope to spend a lot of time playing...it's just a disappointment at this point compared to its predecessor.

This game is in a similar situation as Skyrim - both are the sequels to fantastic games, both needed only to stick to a great, proven formula while also generating high quality new content for the game world to succeed. Unfortunately, Skyrim blew MW3 the **** away at executing this.

I'm looking forward to revisiting this again in a month once they have ironed out some of the kinks.

The MW3 maps are far worse than the MW2 maps. There are so many maps that I just hate playing on (looking at you, Resistance).

I heard the developers say that they didn't want to develop maps like Favela, with vertical levels. Why? Favela was ****ing awesome!

Let's compare a MW3 and MW2 map with a similar theme: Underpass vs. Intersection.

There's really no comparison; the gameplay on Underpass is so much deeper and more complex, even in TDM. Long range battles take place from building to right down the center of the map over the bridge. Run and gunners fight down the middle attempting to dislodge the other team's snipers and cut the team in half. The snipers need to support the battle in the middle as well as countersnipe and are not just pointlessly picking off people. The two sides of the map have lower scale battles where runners from each side attempt to swing around the flank, kill the snipers and then take the whole enemy team from the rear. These areas contain buildings that offer approaches, battlegrounds, and strong points to control approaches.

There are so many choices when deciding your setup on this map. Do I want to snipe from the buildings? Do I want to take an AR/LMG and lockdown a section of the map and maybe press forward if there's an opportunity? Do I want to take an AR/SMG and rush forward clearing the buildings of the long range oriented opponents? Do I want to really rush hard with a commando knifing class? There are lots of shadows, dark windows, long grass and vegetation, do I want a thermal scope? With all the thermal scopes there are sure to be should I take Cold-blooded? etc.

On intersection, you just take whatever SMG/AR class you always take and either run in a clockwise circle or a counter-clockwise circle and make sure to never go into the middle of the map. That's about it.

I pulled up a list of MW2 maps and was just stunned at how good they all are. They all accomodate a variety of playing styles, just in varying degrees.

Afghan
Derail - Maybe the worst MW2 map and probably better than every single MW3 map
Estate
Favela
Highrise
Invasion - boring? But I pwn so hard on this map
Karachi
Quarry
Rundown
Rust
Scrapyard
Skidrow
SubBase - Best map ever imo
Terminal - Best map ever imo
Underpass
Wasteland

All those maps are so different and you need to have different guns, perks, strategies for all of them. I literally take either my Type95 class or silenced SCAR class for every single MW3 map and have no discernable strategy other than keep moving because people are spawning behind me and will kill me.

Wow, reading this list I just realize how much the maps are holding mw3 back from being better than mw2 by far...Cant confirm lag probs, as a shottie fan it sucks that they are still unusable imo even after the patch, im still getting too much hitmarkers to make them reliable. Atm I would say mw3 is only slightly ahead, but mw3 with mw2 maps and it would blow everything away...

I'm curious to hear from some of the "I like the feel of guns in MW3 better" crowd since that side is currently winning narrowly.

I miss MW1 maps.

Maybe it is just nostalgia.

As far as guns go perks and attachments are done much better in this game which gives it the edge to most people.

I think the guns have a more unique feel to them in this game and they are overall well balanced (with some outliers and LMGs suck) making it so more guns get used in this game instead of with MW2 the same 5-7 guns were used by everyone.

I'm also pretty impressed that 2 weeks into the game they have already patched the shotguns showing that they care about balance and making everything usable. The only significant tweak to guns I can remember from MW2 was nerfing the 1887s. Considering the way they have done damage in this game I feel like they can do a much better job fixing some of the more OP/UP guns and improving this game even more.

Edit: Secondary weapons are much much better in this game which should be part of everyone's equation.

Haven't played for a few days thanks to skyrim, but my main issue is with the maps. Pretty much what every one else has said. MW2 maps allowed such variety in gameplay. Take derail for example. I once played that game with a tactical knife and finished as top player. I also played that game as a sniper and finished top player. There were building battles, open ground battles and building to building battles. Whereas every single MW3 map is the same. Run - turn corner - spray and pray. I've played lmg and sniper class a few times, but never again. Unless you are a super duper quickscoper it's pointless. The annoying thing is, even if they release amazing maps in the map pack, it's still just going to be 4 maps - oh and the fact I have to pay for them! Out of the 16, I genuinely believe not a single one is better than a mw2 map. Struggling to even beat most of the black ops maps, imo!

I would love to play some of the MW1 maps all done up again with these new weapons perks etc

Broadcast
Bog
Crash
Showdown
Crossfire

Are some of the best maps ever made.

If I was to pick 10 MW2 and MW3 maps I would want excluding DLC

Terminal - Best map ever imo and is incredible fun without tubes
Scrapyard
Highrise
Afghan
Favela
Invasion
Rundown
Hardhat
Dome
Mission

I love the guns in mw3, it doesn't feel like any one gun is underpowered/overpowered, which is great. The leveling of guns is pretty cool also, in comparison with "20 kills with silencer gets you heartbeat" or whatever the system used to be.

Perks are a lot better without stopping power and juggernaut and danger close and all that, although assassin pro is pretty imba.

Maps, mw2 by far. Mw3 just has such ****ty spots for battling, its too crowded at the outskirts and too open in the middle in most maps, there should be a happy medium here in at least one of the maps, but not really.

I'm not sure what kind of lag almost everyone is bitching about, but I rarely have games where I'm spraying full clips into people without it registering. I have an occasional hiccup where the game stops loading for a second but it's nothing that I didn't expect from the first couple weeks of a game. Give it time and it'll be the same as, if not better than mw2.

Overall, I like mw3.. and I'm not sure if the novelty makes it so that I like it better than mw2 or if I just like it better, but as of right now I'm liking mw3 more.

Didn't answer which game I liked better overall since I still haven't decided. If I had to answer now it'd be MW2 only because I miss the fluidity of the motion. I think MW3 took a step backwards in this regard and made it too much like Blops.

The perks are an obvious improvement. The maps are terribad. I have had no connection issues at all especially after port forwarding the game. Guns are not as cool, there are some much better than others that may need nerfing and I'm already getting bored using the standard ACR/P90/PP90/Type 95. By comparison I never got bored (still not) using any of the Sub Machine guns in MW2 silenced. Some were better than others but all were fun to use. Can't say that about MW3.

Only MW2's spawn is far exceeding MW3's imo. Rest MW3 > MW2. Glad they got rid of stopping power wich is the makes other perks useless

Yeah, I can't yet put my finger on what it is exactly, but I much prefer the feel of the guns in mw2.

Maybe that will change with time I dunno.

Everyone has already touched on the maps. I could probably write for hours about why the MW2 maps were vastly superior, but I'll try and keep it brief. In MW2, maybe you hated Skidrow, maybe you hated Derail, but you got variety. And you got a bunch of maps where all play-styles could thrive (Terminal, Rundown, Underpass). I can't think of one map like that in MW3. Even one of the better maps that has that open/spacious feel, Village, has all the long sightlines cut off or obstructed. They take areas that could provide good, long sightline battles and just artificially make them winding corridors or put a bunch of crap in the way (Arkaden, Interchange as two examples). Even the map names are a good microcosm for the lack of variety...Lockdown, Downturn, Underground.

ya so people just change it out for assassin and ghost lol good theory

domination completely sucks in mw3.

Confirmed have A + B or B + C capped and the other team is backing out by 50 points.

What happens if no one gets the bomb down in the 3rd round in Demo?

This game has so many red dot droolers it's funny, I put Assassin and Dead Silence on last night, I never do this what I noticed was that there was a significant amount less people just ads'ing on choke points with your Type 95/ACR/M4 etc. I don't see why they insist in every COD oh let's put in a perk that hides them from UAV so people can wrack up high k/d's in objective games and lose by 100, COD4 - UAV Jammer MW2 - Cold Blooded Black Ops - Ghost MW3 - Assassin... Same **** different game.

Where is the problem with bringing Napalm back and swapping Blast Shield and Assassin out for Flak Jacket and Tac Mask both amazing perks.

I somehow still prefer this game mainly as OMA tubes made almost every MW2 gametype aids as all it took was one tuber and then everyone was doing it.

Can we just all agree that COD4 was the best of the series?

Yea just update the Graphics to MW2 standard, Add in 8 MW2 maps in a map pack, Add in MW3 killstreak and different packages and there you have the GOAT game + a game winning kill

Ehh, there's something about the COD4 graphics that's just perfect to me. Maybe I'm bias because that was the game I was best at of the bunch...

Just add in a GW Kill cam, make frag nades 1 instead of 3... make them a tiny bit less powerful... new maps.... 3-5-7 WHAT IT ISSSSSSSSSSSS

Perfection.

Personally I never had a problem with stopping power. You could make a case for using DC, hardline, or cold blooded instead.

I'd like to see assassin nerfed so that it only deals with heartbeat sensors and portable radar while blind eye does everything for the sky.

At the very least I think advanced recon should see assassin users. Or possibly add something similar to the assault package that does this.