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Diablo 3 Diablo 3

06-07-2012 , 10:14 PM
I just rolled my first melee class today (barb). It's interesting to see how much different the game plays with a ranged and melee class. So many mobs react different based on how far you are away from it.

One thing is constant though. If you stick to the edge of vision on a ranged class and have room to kite every single non-big boss mob in the entire game will blindly chase you in a straight line or until it hits a wall/edge/whatever.
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06-07-2012 , 11:17 PM
I think people are exaggerating when they're whining how bad barb is. It might be lame to solo since most builds (with limited gold) have very low DPS, but tanky barb offers so much utility for the party. If playing solo high dps DH might maybe be able to use 20% of his real dps ini fights, when playing with a tanking barb it's probably like 80%+. So even if the barb doesn't do much damage himself, I think barb+dh is much better compo than 2 casters.

Also it needs more expensive gear, but on the other hand when you get GOOD gear, barbarian should be really easy to play. If the melee classes would be buffed, barbarian would probably become way too powerful class in a month or two, when people get properly geared up. Almost everyone (even those running acts 3-4) still have relatively bad gear, compared to what is possible.

I don't really think they could "fix" the gear dependency to same level, without changing some drastic game mechanics and/or making the endgame too easy for melees. Maybe slightly increase the chance of damage reduction stats on random attributes or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Chocula
Nerf monks to compensate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdO0rBVFHm0

"Now this strategy for gearing up your monk is extremely easy and powerful, so Blizzard will most likely nerf monks to compensate"

Last edited by chinz; 06-07-2012 at 11:24 PM.
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06-08-2012 , 03:41 AM
Does anyone know of a place that lists what level the monsters are in each act and difficulty? I know them approximately but it would be nice to know exactly.
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06-08-2012 , 04:15 AM
It really tilts me that you can't tell the dps increase or decrease of an item when you're looking at it before purchasing. If I'm going to spend milions on an item, it'd be nice to see what it can do for me first
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06-08-2012 , 04:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by imolin
It really tilts me that you can't tell the dps increase or decrease of an item when you're looking at it before purchasing. If I'm going to spend milions on an item, it'd be nice to see what it can do for me first
Sick brag about having millions to spend.
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06-08-2012 , 06:45 AM
imolin,

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lYlI4TUE#gid=2

I use this thing all the time. Pretty soon you start to get a better feel for how different stat changes are going to affect your dps
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06-08-2012 , 01:09 PM
Zultan XP exploit is <3.

I don't feel bad using it to catch up to my friend so we can quest through hell togehter without him having to wait to let me catch up
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06-08-2012 , 01:56 PM
This is worth a read. Someone asked about the disparity between melee and ranged classes.

Quote:
I'll state up front that I do think there's a disparity between melee and ranged, and I would like to see that closed. I feel like if I talk a lot about thought processes and design philosophy and don't state this up front people will lose the forest for the trees and conclude we think everything is fine. So I'll say it again: melee vs. ranged disparity is not fine, changes are being made, and even if you disagree with the approach outlined below we can hopefully have the common ground that the current situation needs improvement.

It may not look like it on the surface, but a large number of the changes in 1.0.3 are actually targeted at closing the melee/ranged gap. Let me go through some of them.

Hardcore
I'm going to use Hardcore as a starting point. In Hardcore, there's actually a reasonable distribution of classes, and I don't think the melee vs. ranged disparity is as large. There are a lot of Hardcore players of every class in Inferno without a huge disparity. Why is this important? It's because a significant portion of the melee/ranged disparity is related to a ranged character's ability to progress even while dying. A melee player can throw themselves at a monster and die, doing almost no damage to an elite enemy. A ranged player can do a huge amount of damage to an elite enemy, die, respawn, and basically attrition the enemy down with repeated deaths. In the Hardcore environment where a single bad Mortar, Vortex, Jailer, or Reflects Damage will kill a glass cannon-ranged character, the disparity between ranged and melee is an order of magnitude less.

Repair Costs
One of the more controversial changes in 1.0.3 is the increased repair costs. The design intent of these increased repair costs is to make death more meaningful. One of the top arguments we see against the increased repair costs is "I'm already dying dozens of times to make any progress in Inferno. Don't you see this is going to make this impossible?" This concern is most often brought up by ranged glass cannons. Many melee players respond "increased repair costs seem fine" because they haven't been using death-zerging as a tactic. Melee can't easily death-zerg an enemy down, but ranged can. I don't think the answer is to make death-zerging more attractive for melee; I'd rather make death-zerging a less profitable strategy for ranged.

Enemy Health and Damage
We're also looking to adjust the damage and health of enemies in Inferno Acts II, III, and IV. This is another change that is primarily for melee with secondary benefits for ranged. A lot of ranged are building glass cannon with the mentality "well, I'll just try not to get hit at all." So, reducing incoming damage when they weren't taking any before isn't significant for them, whereas reducing incoming damage for the melee is a big deal. For the ranged classes, I'm hoping that the incoming damage reduction will make some survival stats more appealing to ranged classes. While before the damage was so large it just felt pointless to try and mitigate any of it at all, after the change hopefully ranged classes will think "well, if I just put on a modest amount of survivability, I don't get 1-shot, so that's worth it." There are some ranged players who are already doing this -- stacking survivability so they don’t have to endlessly kite -- and it just feels like the minimum amount of survivability to avoid the 1-shot is so large it's unattainable. That's one of the things 1.0.3 seeks to address.

Damage Reduction in Co-op
Another change which is targeted at improving life for melee is the reduction in co-op damage. Again, since many ranged players just build glass cannon and avoid damage completely, they didn't really care if incoming damage went up as other players entered the game, but the melee characters really noticed. It was very easy for your life-on-hit to have you at a steady equilibrium, but as soon as another player entered the game your life-on-hit was no longer covering the incoming damage and death became imminent.

Additional Changes
And finally, there are always minor polish adjustments designed to help melee -- such as the AI on some monsters (BEES!!!) being tweaked to run away less often, which again helps melee more than ranged. I actually spent some extra time the other day to make sure if a Sand Wasp runs away from you, and you start chasing the wasp, it doesn't turn and shoot 4 bees in your face (hopefully that makes 1.0.3). I'm also working with one of our gameplay engineers to make it so if you sidestep the Dark Berserker’s power hit (where he brings his giant mace down), he doesn’t turn to track you as he swings (though that change probably won't make 1.0.3). These kind of AI adjustments are things ranged players don’t even notice, but are huge for melee.

Another adjustment being made is increasing both the maximum range and the dead zone of Mortar. Mortar was specifically designed to be an anti-range affix, but many ranged players would just stand even farther away, whereas melee would sometimes get caught in the cross-fire of two Mortars. Increasing the maximum range and the dead zone helps with both of these.
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06-08-2012 , 04:06 PM
I love that mortar change.

I said I didn't use pots in the other (now locked) thread, and everyone responded that I must still be in normal difficulty.

Also, I came to an agreement with a fellow 2p2 poster regarding the 10m gold loan which is to be transferred at his earliest convenience. Congratulations "Larry Legend" who I believe is still in nightmare difficulty playing very casually, so it should be quite a help for him.
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06-08-2012 , 04:08 PM
so my barb has 1.9 aps and 18% movement speed and now when I try to play another character, I feel like I stuck in mud with slicks
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06-08-2012 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Chocula
I love that mortar change.
As a wiz, I don't.
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06-08-2012 , 04:14 PM
Mortar was clearly meant to be anti ranged, and it was one of the few elite modifiers in that category. Yet it seemed like it hurt melee characters just as much, since they are either in melee range taking ridiculous damage from autoattack, or they are doing no damage at all just running around trying to dodge mortars. While ranged classes had the best of it, being able to attack without taking damage at all.

After that change, mortar could quickly become the type of pack that players will automatically skip, much like invuln minions and nasty things involving soul lashers.

1.9 aps is very slow actually, any loh barb should have more than that. I've seen loh daggers that had 1.85 aps by themselves. Good movement speed though, I love maxing out my ms... when doing corpse runs for questing.
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06-08-2012 , 04:15 PM
as long as im not in a tight room and they arent superfast or something, mortar elites are ezpz for my wiz ya

even mortar/vortex/jailer/waller or some combo of the above isnt hard to deal with. if my teleport cooldown isnt up i just spam click teleport and as long as only 1 or 2 mortars clip me at once illusionist will reset it and i can peace out
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06-08-2012 , 04:18 PM
I don't really know any wizards or dhs that complain much about mortar specifically, which is why the change is being made.
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06-08-2012 , 04:18 PM
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06-08-2012 , 04:22 PM
I think I'm missing something from that comic.
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06-08-2012 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karak
as long as im not in a tight room and they arent superfast or something, mortar elites are ezpz for my wiz ya

even mortar/vortex/jailer/waller or some combo of the above isnt hard to deal with. if my teleport cooldown isnt up i just spam click teleport and as long as only 1 or 2 mortars clip me at once illusionist will reset it and i can peace out
Agreed. But, what about invulnerable minions/fast/etc/etc? And I ran into a chained/fast/molten/etc yesterday that wiped me out so quick. I had 4 stacks of NV and couldn't beat them. And when I tried to park them in a corner, they kept showing up close to their original spot. Diamond skin and run as fast as you can ftw.
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06-08-2012 , 04:30 PM
My barb is lvl 43 and cleared nm, what's the fastest way to get to 50 to unlock hell?

I have party to help if necessary
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06-08-2012 , 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Verno
Agreed. But, what about invulnerable minions/fast/etc/etc? And I ran into a chained/fast/molten/etc yesterday that wiped me out so quick. I had 4 stacks of NV and couldn't beat them. And when I tried to park them in a corner, they kept showing up close to their original spot. Diamond skin and run as fast as you can ftw.
3 approaches:

1) if it's possible, zerg yourself at them constantly until they are dead. this isnt always possible

2) die, go get a snack/drink and come back when tyrael has them all dead. obv only possible for siegebreaker.

3) just drag them to a random corner of the dungeon and die and then skip.
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06-08-2012 , 04:36 PM
Where did the verb "zerg" come from? Is this a new thing?
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06-08-2012 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gospy
Where did the verb "zerg" come from? Is this a new thing?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zerging
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06-08-2012 , 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinz
My barb is lvl 43 and cleared nm, what's the fastest way to get to 50 to unlock hell?

I have party to help if necessary
zoltan runs are good, also first quest in act 4, that one takes about a minute as well and gives good xp.
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06-08-2012 , 06:49 PM
blizz is requiring an authenticator to use the rmah.

source
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06-09-2012 , 12:49 AM
so apparently I can solo unicorns inferno without too much problem or taking too much time (at least so far havent seen a too annoying boss).

Ill be selling the chests+pinatas after cleaning up with 5 nephalems. if some of you guys wanna get in on the goods.

i think they sell em for like 150k with pinata and 100 without on the forums?

i can do a bit less ill go get more info
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06-09-2012 , 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kirbynator
so apparently I can solo unicorns inferno without too much problem or taking too much time
Thinly veiled brag.

I know a lot of people are selling runs like that, but I'm a bit curious. It is really better to kill everything with slow MF, than corpse-run the clouds/pinata with 300% MF and probably do 3+ runs in the same time. Is the loot from ponies really that much better? We tried killing stuff there once, was super slow and painful for us (undergeared ldo) and we decided to give up on trying to kill, just loot run instead.
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