FWIW I think its totally fine to pay $300 for a game as long as the game is actually good. I feel this is like another hex TCG, where if it was any other developer they would just get blown out. Because its valve it will get propped up though.

dkgo you are right, curvestone is a problem, but I don't think making cards nonplayable some % of the time reduces the problem. For example, you only have one 1 2 3 4 5 drop in your hand, your move is obvious generally. Now with resource variance if you are missing a couple of those, its the same problem. The real "solution" is your hand should have a few different things you can do per turn. Once you realize this, the answer cannot really be MTG based games (including 'fixed' versions like HS), it has to be dominion-like games, or have a radically different mana/resource system surrounding what cards you can play.

From the streams so far I feel like the gameplay is very solid and fun in draft

100% agree with this. I've played HS, MTGA, TESL, eternal, but artifact is just horrendous as a viewer without general knowledge of the game. If I, a relatively experienced CCG player, has no idea what is going on, that makes me less likely to think "hey this looks cool I might check this out." Combined with the fact that I need to pay $20 to even "check it out" means it will get very, very few casual players imo.

I was watching Toast (who had Scarra watching him play briefly, and played a game himself) play a bit, and Toast came to the conclusion that the game was very well made, but no one is going to play it except a certain hardcore group of players who will be amazing at the game and make it difficult for new people to even try it out, since they will get destroyed. Scarra basically laughed and was like "So wait they think people are going to play this?"

Other thing that struck me was the whole 25%/50%/25% attack direction seemed horrific in terms of RNG. Due to the snowbally nature of lanes and heroes, if you "miss" and get an unlucky RNG roll, your hero might die, losing you the lane, and losing you the game, based on something that it seems like you have very little impact on. Now this might just be me not understanding the game enough (again, horrible spectator experience), but that strikes me as pretty terrible. All CCGs/TCGs have RNG in some form just from the draw, with HS being known as having quite a lot of RNG due to card effects. However, the RNG in artifact (based on my limited understanding) is the worse of all since you can't just play a low-RNG deck or something when its a core part of the combat system. Its like if you went to make a favorable trade in HS but the game has an intrinsic system where 50% of the time you actually hit face or the wrong minion instead.

the redeployment and 2 towers system makes it very un-snowbally compared to other games where you can just blow someone out. Even with lucky arrow rng imo.

Comebacks happen a LOT for a card game. Constructed probably snowballs 100x more though.

Yeah the redeployment stuff is cool, and again I've only watched maybe 1-2 hours of games played by people who didn't really know what they were doing, so not the best. It did seem like if you lose a lane to RNG you pretty much just abandon it and race in another lane though, which kind of seems like it trivializes the entire point of the 3-lane battle.

Also re: economy, feels really weird when WOTC are moving away from the MTGO model to MTGA which is relatively F2P-friendly (even if it also has major economy issues), here we have Valve going in the opposite direction. Not sure the audience they are trying to target here?

My point is this game is dead out of the gates because it won't attract new players. $20 is really a tryout fee. Which is LOL these days when it comes to ccgs.

This was the most hyped card game and it's already fallen off on Twitch. Why? Because it suffers from watchability issues.

twitch chat views as a metric is just a meme are you serious with that lol (and talking about views right now when its a closed beta that none of the public can play and then want to watch streamers is disingenuous at best)


chess ded game 1500 viewers

Twitch is pretty good metrics for interests in games even betas. A lot of mmos in betas often have more views than they do when they're open to the public.

Chess is pretty ded game when it comes to it being a video game. lol you

You're fanboying.

its a pretty ******ed argument, there are so many examples to show why this is wrong.

path of exile has a huge community and is the furthest thing from a deadgame yet it has less than 10k viewers a week after new leagues.

Many games are way better to play than to watch, the opposite of starcraft 2 that had almost no players but the tournament viewers were huge.

There's also a huge amount of people that play chess online, you're like wrong on every thing you're saying

No, you're arguments are fairly poor.

Go out and make a chess game and try and sell it online. Just because people still play a game doesn't mean it's a viable business model. Which is part of why games are called ded.
Just like there may be some people who play Artifact on release but the business model will choke out what it needs to be a viable competitor with MTGA and HS.

Nobody called PoE ded. And it's massive drop off in viewership after week 1 or 2 correlates with drop offs in game. lol you at even making that argument.

And lol at SC2? It's most certainly a dead game in the West. And tournaments are the only thing that piques its interests here for a large amount of people.

You're a fanboy and have been fanboying itt. Like the Valve news being a savior lol.

PoE is dead in your twitch viewers metric, even on new leagues.

and going from like 30k viewers to 5k is NOT representative of the players drop off inside the poe game at all. It takes like a month or more into leagues to lose half the players. The viewers are only good first few days then it goes back to complete **** compared to any game on twitch.

What's your definition of ded game it seems really vague? Valve will make a ton of money, a ton of players will play it, the twitch viewers will suck. Those are facts

was obviously talking about when sc2 was one of the biggest viewed game on twitch. Again, i dont see your point with starcraft at all your reading comprehension seems to be having issues today. of course its a dead game, and was arguably a dead game even just 1 year in and making no money, while still getting a crapton of viewers on twitch, which goes against your twitch viewers = not dead game metric.

Also gaben pays me

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No PoE isn't dead according to my metrics. It holds a smaller cult game status like a lot of games on Twitch does. It is still profitable for the developer.

SC2 doesn't get a crapton of views outside of tournaments that are broadcast from a region where the game is actually still super popular (Korea). You bringing that game as some point is dumb, dude. Asia is a different market with its own tastes.

And I don't see how you can claim Valve will make a ton of money off of Artifact when given evidence is that the hypetrain went off its rails besides fanboys.

did you miss their post about putting infinite free drafts in the game and recycling duplicates?

that fixes most of the issues that derailed the day 1 hype.

It's valve theyll make money

Can you win anything from the infinite free draft? Otherwise whats the point?

To have fun

lol Kripp said he spent most of the night thinking about a deck he could make that would possibly be the best deck ever made (he said stuff like he wouldnt be surprised if this deck was used in the $1m tournament, if this deck made the meta, yadda yadda)

First of all its tricolor, which is already pretty suspect for a constructed deck. Looking at the idea and the cards, it doesnt look anything special.


first game he plays a bot to show it off.

He ****ing loses

LMAO the ego hit


***HE LOST AGAIN TO THE BOT LOL 0-2 vs bot best deck ever made

Daily shill poster here, according to thier twitter the first thing they're gonna work on post-release is the progression system (probably both a rank and mmr if it's similar to dota 2)

You think they gonna work on not raping people in their face with their monetization model?

I wouldnt mind trying this game, I'm awful at HS, so i'm gonna be bad at this, but this looks cool

I thought I would jump on this game but I've watched about an hour of it on twitch and have no idea what is going on.
I love dota but I've never been a fan of the art and artifact looks really generic to me.
The game doesn't attract me I don't know why ,even watching some streamers I like I'm changing stream real fast.
I'll give it another look when they get some stream overlay to look the cards up or if there is a free trial.

yeah i thought the same except i dont have the dota connection. ive given it a few more shots watching dog and am trying to learn but it is just not very inviting

pretty huge addition

people were guessing it would take a lot more than 20 random(and even common?) cards per ticket.

seems like going infinite tickets in expert mode with the market on top of recycle should be relatively easy.




also

for those who want to try out the game for free with refund

Oh just read on reddit VERY IMPORTANT IF YOU WANT TO USE THE MARKET do this NOW

https://www.reddit.com/r/Artifact/co...held_up_to_15/

Can you play the AI for free? Or you have to purchase the game and then get a refund?

yeah basically kinda scam them by trying it out and getting a refund , as long as you dont open the starting package (which is the reason for the 20$ cost cause it has starter decks + 10 packs)