or Astrology, or Scientology, or Precognition, or Psychics?

I believe in rushes simply because of the dynamic of your opponents playing weaker against you, and having the confidence to play to your utmost potential, probably different than what you'd consider a rush though.

Astrology, Scientology, Precognition no.

Psychics...I do not believe there are psychics (I'd have to meet one) right now. However, I do believe that human's are yet to find a higher realm of perception and thought, that will allow the brain to tap in to the knowledge of the energy all around us.

I am also an agnostic, not an atheist.

I have no doubt in my mind that you could find people who claimed to be Atheists, while at the same time claiming to be psychic, precognitive, etc. I'm inclined to say that in some sense these people aren't 'true' atheists, but it doesn't seem to amount to much more than a quibbling over definitions.

I suppose even someone who adopted a hardline atheist position could claim to be psychic and be internally consistent... depending on how he justified his belief. He might claim that there are laws of physics which have not yet been discovered which will show a clear connection between human thought processes and information about the future, using a type of anthropic principle to justify the necessary existence of said laws (he's a psychic, so the laws of physics must be such to allow this). You could certainly make a strong case that the atheist/psychic in question is an extremely poor scientist, but claiming he was not a 'true' atheist may be much more difficult.

If he thought he was a psychic because pink fairies visited him every night and told him the future it would be a different story.

There was a study analyzing the 76'ers and how field goal percents changed based on whether previous shots were made or not. No statistical significance. This despite the fact that many players are known as "streak shooters;" the coach bawked at the findings, calling them ridiculous.
It seems there is something about the way we process information that leads us to this faulty logic again and again, sometimes in the face of evidence directly disproving it.

That being said, I'm sure there are atheists who believe in rushes. However, these would likely not be people who have overcome the brainwashing of religion, but rather those who happened to be born into an atheist family and stayed with it--just like a christian being indoctrinated.

It really pisses me off when you get these guys saying they were destined to win a tourney. This without mention of all the times they busted out--but when they get lucky it was destiny!

Whether or not you are an atheist, I seriously doubt your pokes acumen if you believe in destiny or rushes; so lets sit down and test destiny heads-up for a few thousand hands

David,

Are you referring to all people who don't believe in a god, or just those who don't do so for logical reasons?

I would hazard a guess that some of the PEAR (Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research) people would be atheists. I don't know for sure though. There are certainly ways to justify psychic phenomena or precognition using QM in a godless world, however kooky that might be.

Scientologists are theists, part of their belief system is based on a supreme being and a soul.

http://skepdic.com/pear.html

There are probably a reasonable number of passive athiests who have any number of extraordinary beliefs, and a few hard athiests who have mild superstitions and stuff, but as a rule they don't go together. And it's not necessarily because athiests are so smart and logical. First, the existance of God is sort of a central condition for most supernatural orders, so if you deny it for any reason you're unlikely to believe in all the ancillary supernatural phenomena. Second, most athiests have a skeptical motive, and whether it comes from intelligence or arrogance, if you have enough skepticism to deny the single most widely accepted and promoted bit of supernatural belief out there, then you're unlikely to believe in less accepted and less supported versions of the same.

Off the top of my head, the biggest exception, at least in this country, is teenagers. They're very rebellious but also believe all kinds of fantastic stuff, so it makes such a combination fairly common. E.g., in young goth crowds it's very trendy to deny or hate god, but to believe in all kinds of even stupider supernatural phenomena like witchcraft at the same time. Then there are young star-trek types, who love science fiction so much that they deny god in the name of "science", but accept all kinds of implausible "fiction"-y stuff like precognition. There are others too, but they generally all grow out of it one way or another.

Also, historically, at various times Astrology has been treated like a hard science, and it's practitioners were scientists (e.g., a ruler would consult his priests on the one hand and his astrologers on the other), so it's conceivable that some of them were athiests. But then athiesm was just so rare, on the whole, that this probably isn't a large group.

It is certain there are. It is also certain they are worthy of mockery.

Ummm, not me. To be an athiest and still be superstitious, or believe in a psychic or anything like that would be extremely hipocritical.

This is sort of where I was going in the other thread.

Most who believe in astrology probably also believe in God.

I'm more agnostic than atheist, but I've personally have had experiences with precognition.

Once I envisioned a 7-card stud poker hand while playing in a stud tourney in Resorts many years ago. It involved being dealt a three-flush with an ace door card and playing the hand like a pair of aces catching certain cards, but backing into a flush and winning the hand leaving my opponents shaking their heads. I went through this whole process in my head, every bet, every street, etc. A short time later this hand was dealt to me and played out exactly as I envisioned.

On another occasion I was backing out of my driveway. This was unusual, as I always backed into the driveway, so I could pull straight out. But this time was different. As I was backing out I looked to see if it was clear and I was, so I started backing out. Something made me stop and check again, and I justified it to myself thinking that someone may be going by in a wheelchair and was blocked by a hedge. I looked carefully and sure enough, someone was going by in a wheelchair! After he passed I started backing again but stopped again thinking that someone may be coming the other way in a wheelchair. I looked again and sure enough, someone else was coming the other way in a wheelchair! I always assumed that I must have seen one of these guys in the corner of my eye while getting in my car, but it only registered in my sub-conscience.

The weirdest one was one time I was driving on a highway and got off at an exit. I was driving up the ramp and onto the service road. I approached an intersection where the light was green. There was a building on the right that prevented me from seeing any traffic approaching from the right side. As I approached the intersection I inexplicably stepped on the brake somewhat hard and came to a complete stop before entering the intersection with the green light. Just as I stopped, a car came through the intersection from the right at a high rate of speed and blew through his red light. There would have been no way to avoid a collision if I had gone through the intersection like I normally did with a green light a thousand times before. I have no idea why I stopped at that green light.

You don't have to me smart to be an atheist, so I sure some of them believe in rushes.

Psychics are another matter. Seems similar to believing in God.

I don't know much about Scientology.

By the way, "devout" atheists are just as kooky as devout religious people. I saw some meeting or conference on TV once about atheists and they all seemed kind of weird.

LOL confimation bias FTW .

Assuming by "believe in" you mean probable right now as opposed to possible at some point then of course not.

Yes there are. I have more than one atheist friend who believes in ghosts, and psychics. Talking to them about this stuff is not a good time at all, to say the least.

I used to think Bayes theorum was the simplest thing in the world until I talked to these people. Now I realize that a lot of people cannot or will not understand it or apply it.

I guess that's why I'm an agnostic and not an atheist. I believe human's just need to advance and elevate their awareness of the energy around them. Gd, I sound like such a hippy, but I believe it, so eh.

There may be some, but I am not one of them.

For me astrology, scientology, precognition and psychics are fairly clearly created by scamsters.

A rush though? I think it depends on the definition. Over the short term the quality of cards dealt is variable. I believe in "card death" and "getting a few nice hands on the bounce". I have seen it myself so I know this exists. I am not sure if this is a "rush" though I suspect a couple of other factors help rushes - the behavior of those involved. The player hitting hands starts to be a bit more aggressive, the confidence of a stack. The opponents play a bit weaker through fear of the now higher stack and (subconsciously?) remembering the strong hand(s) just laid down.

Meh, in my head I dont believe in it, but you still cant help yourself sometimes when you are playing poker and hitting every hand, playing craps and never throwing a seven. I mean, you realise it is all random luck but empirical evidence is so strong that you find yourself trying to not "think" seven, despite how dumb that sounds.

All of them, DUCY?

Optimal belief systems are probability clouds--they best accommodate input.

This is why labels don't apply at least to the superintelligent.

David, have you had your cloud checked today?


OT:

For future reference, could you please define 'high-falootin' or provide a link to your definition?

It would help.

As for David's original question, that's 5x "no" for me.

Anyone who could give credible evidence for any tiny little piece of the things he mentioned would be showered with accolades, and be the most unambigious winner of a Nobel Prize (in Physics, most likely) ever.

So if it was likely that any of these things had any truth to them, scientists would be falling all over themselves trying to grab that honor. Very, very, very few -- extremely few -- seem to do so. And the few who do have a nasty tendency to turn out to be full-blown cranks.

This is not the only reason I don't believe in those things, but I find it quite telling.

Why?

Yes, I believe Rushes exist, in hindsight!

There is no such thing as an atheist or a believer. If we are honest -- we are all agnostic. One definition from www.dictionary.com says:

"asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge"

I have not PHYSICALLY died and been PHYSICALLY born or reincarnated again -- I wish to believe in more, I hope to believe in more, but I do not know because I have no proof... Thus I am a Christian born true believing agnostic atheist...

God bless...

The fact that we barely use 10% of our brain coupled with the fact that energy is all around is in all different forms. It's interesting to me that in death the energy that was used in brain function and all other functions of the body do not simply dissipate (being physically impossible to do so), but most likely changes form. I'm not saying its possible now, but I would NOT be surprised to run in to somebody (or at least witness) somebody who is very aware of everything around him, even things which he could not realistically perceive.

Fact?

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

Nice ref -- thank you!