I think Fedor would be the ape.

How about this, who would win in a fight? a 100 pound chimp or a professional fighter who has the advantage of watching 3 other fights the chimp has had against other fighters and devising a strategy specifically designed for killing chimps?

Gorillas weigh between 300-600 pounds, and from what I can tell appear to have a high muscle to fat ratio. Even a muzzled gorilla could beat Fedor or any of these fighters in a fair fight.

I rather doubt that any chokehold would work since the chimp is likely strong enough to simply pry the human's grip loose. If a fighter with only the strength of an seven-year-old human got you in a similar chokehold couldn't you just pry his arms off you? The chimp is probably at least 4 times stronger than the UFC fighter for arm strength...oh yes, and the chimp can use the hands on his legs to pry the chokehold off too.

I think the only chance the UFC fighter would have would be to land an incapacitating or fatal blow, and it might have to be a lucky blow at that. Maybe a full force kick to the head as the chimp closes the distance would knock it out. But animals have a way of dodging slightly or slipping so that most such strikes would only be glancing blows.

A UFC fighter would probably also have to be lucky to land a solid incapacitating kick against a 100-lb dog if the dog knew it was a fight to the death. I would pick a chokehold against the dog and a severe blow against the chimp. In either case I like the animal's chances (provided the dog is not just some fat overgrown cocker spaniel type maybe. Great Dane, Rottweiler, maybe a Doberman or German Shepherd if they can get nearly that big, and I'll lay odds on the dog. Heck a 75. lb. Doberman would probably whup a UFC fighter in a death match).

Sorry to derail the thread, but, as a boxing fan and more recently a mixed martial arts fan, a question I have been pondering is whether an average boxer, say ranked 50 in the world, could beat the top MMA striker in a similar weight class if they had to play by boxing rules.

I know Fedor could beat any boxer if they played by MMA rules, but I think an average boxer could beat Fedor if they played by boxing rules.

My money would be on Fedor if they were wearing 4 ounce gloves. Defence is totally different wigh 4 ounce gloves and the boxer wouldn't be acclimated to it and would end up getting knocked out because it.

I hear what you're saying about the four ounce gloves, and hadn't really considered that angle of it. But imo there is so much "science" for lack of a better word in boxing, and that's all boxers do all day long, from my observations a decent boxer is much better at boxing than even the champion mma guys.

There was a man vs. beast special on TV a few years ago.

One contest was a tug-of-war between a sumo wrestler and an orangutan. The sumo wrestler weighed nearly twice as much as the orangutan. The orangutan won.

I doubt a choke would be possible. A biting, scratching, clawing monkey would be hard to choke for more than a few seconds. A "fatal blow " would almost be impossible even by a trained expert. It's much more difficult to KO an opponent than most people think, although MMA is showing to a wider audience now that the real fight starts after the close and finishes on the ground.

If stuck in a cage with a pissed monkey I think the best bet would be some type of joint manipulation (armbar) and not to submission but to break his arm ASAP.

As an MMA fan of the last 8 years and a boxing fan for longer I would say that under MMA rules no pure boxer is going to touch Fedor, as he wouldnt even dream of standing toe to toe with them - look what happened with Fujita.

Under boxing rules any world class pro is going to smoke Fedor.

I agree and would say that any boxer ranked in the top 50 (or even top 100) in his weight class would beat Fedor under the rules of boxing.

Problems that I see with even the best strikers in MMA as far as boxing is concerned:

-Stances are often too open
-poor footwork
-poor/non-existant use of the jab
-punches are too wide
-not a lot of head movement
-most likely poor inside fighting skills as per the rules of boxing

Admittedly some of this has to do with the rules of mma, but imo even the best strikers are a long way off from being good boxers.

This is definitely the best way to win. I made a chimpanzee tap once with a submission. Just don't let it pass your guard and get side control or else you'll be the one tapping out.

Aren't there tons of martial arts and military training techniques that emphasize (or at least teach) lethal blows?

I think the human wins despite the chimp's superior strength.

As the weight class goes up the Great apes have a bigger advantage. 20:1 on the chimp..
BTW have you ever seen a 250lb gorilla twist a car tire into a figure eight?!?
I think the human has to get first strike lucky.. and get a thumb in thru the eye of the monkey and into his brain (something like that) to win.

david.

if we could arrange this somehow(0 chance) i would bet(with odds of course, since you are so certain) on the other side. in fact, i would take 1:1

rj

My former father-in-law related to me this story. He was in the 82nd Airborne . . . Band (he blew a wailing trumpet, man), stationed in Fayetteville, North Carolina in the 70s.

One night he and some comrades, including some Green Berets they knew went to the local County Fair. Most carried bottles or flasks, so there was much courage in attendence (not that the Green Berets or the 82nd Airborne Band were lacking in courage).

One of the things that was at the fair was a big caged ring, in which was an old chimp that chain smoked cigarettes (I [censored] you not). The bit was that you paid $3, and if you could stay in the ring with the chimp for a minute, you won $300. In the 1970s, $300 was quite a bit of money, especially to a serviceman.

They all tried it, including the Green Berets. The chimp kicked their asses, one by one, and never even got excited.

They were warned not to go for his eyes, because if they got him upset, he could literally tear your arms off.

My former father-in-law said that afterward it was the most frightening thing he'd ever done, and that the chimp felt like it was made of steel bands and covered with fur.

After kicking the last guy's ass, the biggest, baddest, and quickest of the Green Berets, the chimp went back to smoking cigarettes.

Anyone arguing against David's assertion that the chimp is the dead nuts, has no idea what they're talking about.

This certainly begs the question of how many five year olds would it take to defeat a chimp?

The chimp is a lock. Super strong, flexible, sharp teeth, ability to grip, nasty demeanor. I can't see any human overcoming that skill set. Someone brought up man vs dog and opined that the dog would win. I have to disagree. I beat the crap out of a German Shepherd that attacked me while I was jogging back in college. I think anyone with any striking skills could pummel a dog. Other than sharp teeth a dog has nothing going for it.

The people who think the chimp is a virtual lock are way off. Although the monkey would have a considerable strength advantage against a human, strength is not everything. Anyone who has trained in brazilian jiu jitsu knows that superior positioning and using mechanical advantages can overcome huge strength differentials. It would definitely be possible for a human to kill a chimp with a properly applied rear naked choke. Chimps are very strong, but the mechanical advantage that a fighter would have if he could secure the choke would be enough to prevent the monkey from prying itself loose.

Moreover, all the stregth in the world will not prevent the chimp from being knocked out. I don't care if the chimp can bench press 2000 pounds, a well placed kick to the side of its head will put it to sleep. And the human would have a very big advantage in landing the first knockout blow because humans are a lot taller and the chimp would have absolutely no knowledge of how to properly protect itself or really have any idea of what is at stake.

I think people are grossly underestimating how much of an advantage the human's intelligence would be in a situation like this. A well trained fighter has spent his entire life training in how to knock someone out or break their bones as quickly as possible, whereas a chimp has absolutely no awareness whatsoever of any kind of technique.

Finally I submit to you the following video of a trained fighter who is 6'5", 350 lb, ~ 8% body fat, (weighlifting stats: 585lb bench (close grip), 500lb incline bench, 800lb squat, 420lb power cleans) losing a fight to 230 lb man:

http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/s...ro-vs-bob-sapp

Now maybe the strength difference between those two fighters is less than the strength difference between a human and a chimp. But nevertheless, you still must take into account the HUGE difference of intelligence and skill between a chimp and a human.

In sum, anyone who thinks a chimp is the "dead nuts" against an elite MMA fighter is way way off. Substitue a gorilla for the chimp and I'll agree the gorilla is a lock.

After reading this thread and googling both chimps and gorillas, I admit I was way off base. I knew chimps were strong, but holy sht I didn't know they that damn strong. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for any human being to beat a chimp in a fight to the death. Damn think would prolly rip your head right off your shoulders.

And as for a full grown 600lb gorilla........in hand to hand combat to the death I can't even come up with a number of men it would take to beat the thing down. Prolly 10+ .

A chimp has twice the reach of a man, hands on the end of his feet, and a skull that might as well be made of reinforced concrete. You could not put a choke hold on a chimp, because the chimp could simply reach over his shoulders and literally tear your head off your body. If you think a kick to the head will knock out a chimp, you're crazy. I doubt a kick to the head from the greatest martial artist in the world would phase a chimp. The reason head trauma is so dangerous to people is becuase we have relatively large, fragile brains encased in very thin protective casings. A chimp's skull is several times thicker than a man's. The chimp's skull is also wrapped in a least a centimeter of muscle all the way to the sagital crest, where the human skull is mostly "naked", i.e. free of muscular padding, only protected by skin and hair.

that number seems ridiculously low

Chimpanzees also have much denser bones, greater agility, flexibility, and thicker skin than us, in addition to a 7x strength advantage and the aformentioned hands where their feet should be.

The only humans who I think would have a chance would be those specifically trained to fight chimpanzees, which UFC/MMA fighters are not.

That story is only moderately relevant because:

a) Most likely none those green berets had nearly as much training in striking or submission grappling as an elite MMA fighter. In fact, since brazilian jiu jitsu was virtually non-existent in North America until the 1990s, I am almost positive none of those green berets could have had any decent grappling training.
b) The rules of the event that you describe are completely different from what we are talking about here. What you describe sounds like an improvised sumo wrestling match where the human is just trying not to get thrown out of the ring. In the fight we are talking about, the human would be trying to strike the chimp and/or put him in some kind of submission hold, which apparently none of the people in your story were even attempting to do.