I have to agree with the person that mentioned how easy it is to recognize the UFC fanboys here. It's also easy to recognize how huge the human ego is. Some people just can't come to grips with the fact that we are not the most superior beings on this earth. A chimp would whip a man's arse... or what's left of it after it has been chewed off.

Consider this news story where 1 angry male chimp burst into a car with 4 men and killed 1 and injured the other 3: http://www.news8austin.com/content/t...sp?ArID=160615

"It ripped his face off..."

Researchers estimate that chimps are 5-10 times stronger than men. And unlike what a previous poster mentioned, they are not simply tree-swinging herbivores. Chimps also hunt other animals for meat. From small antelope to other monkeys.

So the idea that you could pin a chimp down is laughable. Read the link I posted above and you'll see how easily they can chomp off your hand. Add to that 4 powerful hands, thick skin, and a muscular frame (from climbing trees all day) and you've got one fine mess of a human left to clean up.

As someone mentioned earlier, there's a reason why you only see cute baby chimps in movies and on television.

good point. i agree chimp wins. man's only chance is to land the first blow and make it count.

not a chance. i would take myself or most any other semi-athletic adult man over a 75 lb doberman in deathmatch. all a doberman can do is bite. if you don't let it get your throat it can't kill you. the trick then would be to keep your feet (which might not be as easy as it sounds against such a big dog) and get it to latch on to a leg or arm so you could either pummel its head or go for a choke. while it would be difficult for me, and i'd estimate my chances at only about 65%, it would be no problem whatsoever for a pro fighter.

as for the gorilla, 5 UFC fighters could not take a single silverback. you might as well be fighting a lion.

I raise your 5 UFC/Pride Champions by at least 5 more. With no weapons whatsoever there is no way in hell 10 men are gonna beat down a pissed off Silverback.

Some very good posts here specially from the guys who have actually trained in BJJ/Judo/MMA. And guys hate to break it to you BJJ is not the end all of martial arts and it certainly doesn't make you invincible as some people seem to be implying (FYI i do train BJJ along with Muay Thai and a little Judo).

I personally would rather be a great freestyle wrestler with rudimentary BJJ skills than a great BJJ artist with rudimentary wrestling skills.

Anyways if i was to put odds on Chimp vs. Man i'd gladly put 20-1 on it.

chimp and its not close, chimps are 5x stronger than humans

Discovery Channel has a when-chimps-attack show on now (Rogue Nature). It's sure to repeat too.

wtf??? squat maybe. bench no.

name me one tight end in the NFL even close to 700lb bench and ill shave my head like hellmuth. do u have any idea how huge a 700lb bench is? thats a good lift for top powerlifters

Of course the boxer would win at boxing. There is more money in boxing. If any MMA fighter could compete at boxing he would be a boxer. Unless you really think they aren't in it for the money.

Yes, but did the sumo know it was a tug-of-war to the death?

I agree that the chimp is the nuts.

The problem here will always be a certain vagueness in defining the contest. What does "knowing it is in a fight to the death" mean to a chimp that in the wild would, during the course of a fight, always be making EV determinations vis-a-vis fight or flight. If the contest is to take place in the octagon, then the chimp would need some conditioning to that venue and training around the fight to the death idea. How far does that training go?

In the wild, how does the UFC dude convince the chimp it's in a fight to the death? Does continually threatening its harem do the trick? In a sense this is disadvantageous to the UFC dude as he must accomplish two tasks: 1) convince chimp that the only solution is death; and 2) kill the chimp. Achieving #2 would be easier without achieving #1.

In either case, in my view, if the chimp believes the only solution is to kill the UFC dude, he will have little trouble achieving that objective due to strength and flexibility.

Or the chimp could fight human-style

A full grown male would slaughter anybody. Even with "death blows" the guy would have to get lucky. Chimps are about 3x stronger than people.

I hope you guys are better at poker than picking winners in death matches.

This is like the Deon Sanders thread "Two guys can tackle Deon, one guys pushes him towards the sideline while the other guy tackles him."

You all have been talking about competitive martial arts. No one has said anything about the variants that are designed to be lethal.

Back in the military, we had a nice sentry-killing move. Basically, you went for a modified chokehold. But instead of going for a choke, you used your forearm to strike the throat (hopefully crushing the trachea, but not necessary), using the momentum of the strike of your forearm to pull the guy backward. Then you lever your shoulder into the base of the skull, and jump backward into a bellyflop. The force of the landing breaks his neck just at the base of the skull. (We actually used this in conjunction with a knife to the kidney, but the knife is clearly verboten in man v. chimp scenario). Properly executed, the sentry's neck pops about a third to half a second from when you first go for the throat strike. There are physiological differences between a chimp and a person that might make this problematic, and this move was designed as a surprise attack, but using some variant of it would likely factor into an optimum lethal attack on a chimp.

Obviously the big problem is getting into position.

I don't know what this ultimate fighting is, and I don't know the capabilities of those fighters, but in a fight to the death with a chimp my money would be on your average delta trooper/SEAL-type all day long. Maybe even your average Ranger, too, although they tend to be less thoroughly trained in hand to hand combat than the spec ops types mentioned above.

That said, the guy who was my hand to hand combat instructor kills your average chimp in about two and a half seconds, tops.

This sort of fearlessness coupled with the right training in lethal hand to hand combat would be insurmountable for the poor dead chimp.

I believe that your competitive martial artist would first have to train extensively in lethal techniques; having done so, and assuming he had or could develop roughly the same sort of ruthlessness that elite military personnel develop, then there's no reason he couldn't perform at least as well as elite military personnel against the chimp.

By the way, for those of you who have been suggesting that more than one person might stand a better chance against the chimp than would one, I believe this is probably incorrect. Any small group of people, unless they are perfectly trained to work together against a single opponent, are at a marked disadvantage in lethal hand to hand combat against the one person. The single person has the advantages of superior coordination of movement, speed and maneuverability. This may not hold true for a single chimp, though, who may not realize he has those advantages, and therefore might not employ them to best advantage.

For those of you who picked the chimp, I suggest 11 weeks in Ranger school. While there, try to find the instructor who couldn't take the chimp.

The majority of techniques taught at any MMA-related school are lethal, if that is your goal. Any BJJ choke is lethal if applied long enough, and all striking disciplines are lethal if you KO your opponent and keep hitting, obviously. Even holds like armbars and heel-hooks are dangerous, considering if applied and not released until the maximum damage is done, whichever appendage that was caught is now useless, and the victim is incapacitated or close to it. Also, as you stated, the techniques you describe are stealth-type techniques, which aren't useful if your opponent knows you are about to attack him. My point is you don't have to be trained specifically to kill, and in most MMA techniques the "lethal variant" is simply not letting go of your hold. Any fully-trained well-rounded MMA fighter would beat a military trained attacker with ease, in most case, given the fact they are trained in takedown defense, striking offense/defense, submission offense/defense, etc.

All that said, the chimp is the nuts, as many already have stated. All the techniques in the world would be useless against an enraged chimp that has the raw power to critically injure you with even a glancing blow. Trying to apply any sort of submission on a struggling chimp would be impossible.

The particular move I described was a stealth technique. Most are not. I believe this one would be an effective killing maneuver if you could somehow manage to get into position on the chimp. Were I fighting the chimp, I think I would attempt to implement a strategy that put me in position to kill the chimp with a variant of this stealth move.

As for the ultimate fighters: again, I have no idea what that is, so I can't discuss their capabilities. I imagine they are superbly trained martial artists, and, if so, would favorably match up against your average elite trooper in any sort of a contest not to the death. It is the to the death part that changes the equation, though. First, there is the ruthlessness involved in killing. Second, lethal hand to hand, as taught to the military, focuses on speed and lethality. There is no fight, per se--the trained attacker simply executes a killing blow appropriate to the circumstances. For example, if attacked by a knife wielding opponent, a military fighter is trained to execute one of 3 incapacitating/take down moves (depending on the knife attack employed), and follow with one of 3 or 4 swift killing moves. Total engagement time is about 1-2 seconds. One of these moves, by the way, is to disarm the knife-wielding attacker by impaling your weak hand on the blade. You see what I mean about ruthlessness? It takes a different mindset to engage in a fight to the death, and if you do not take for granted the fact that it is logical to sacrifice your hand to gain a momentary advantage, and if you cannot make this sacrifice instantly, without hesitation, you will die if your opponent has roughly similar skills.

But non-lethal, defensive skills are important if the engagement lasts past the first attack. In that, you are correct. So I think your contest martial artist probably would: 1. be killed by your average military-trained elite soldier/seal fairly quickly (8-10 seconds, absolute max) or 2. incapacitate the soldier/seal type in an engagement that lasted perhaps > 8-10 seconds. Stated more simply, the soldier/seal type either kills quickly or loses to a trained martial artist.

As for the chimp, I think this whole thread has underestimated the importance of intelligence/training in a fight. With due regard for the abilities of the chimp, there is simply no way the blind rage/ferocity of a chimp overcomes the intelligent, calculated deadliness of a someone trained in military-style lethal hand to hand combat.

I will listen to argument on this subject from spec ops types who have mastered the relevant training and who think they would be outclassed; otherwise, I can't take seriously an opinion on fighting to the death from people who have never done it or at least trained extensively for it. You just can't know.

jfk..... that was the funniest post i have ever read... u r a god!!!

First of all, in selecting a representative for humans in this fight, I would not pick a UFC fighter. I dont see Royce Gracie putting the chimp into a triangle, or Randy the Natural using a rear naked choke lol to get the ape to tap out.

I do think though, that there probably is a man in the world (perhaps in Africa) who has super-strength and agility (compared to David Sklanksy and the rest of the forum). The man could weigh like 370 pounds at 7'6 or something (super Shaq). The man could have been faced with killing all kinds of animals in real life and could be considered a savage. A man like this may have the brute force and size to kill the ape. He may resort to eye gouging, but then again, the chimp will probably go for the face too during the fight.

Also, If someone gave it enough study they could develop a martial arts specifically for combating chimpanzees... Perhaps chimps have vulnerabilities in their fighting style that a human could capitalize on.

But if you found the big guy i described and also had a fighter who learned Chimpjitzu, id still put my money on the chimp

A 150 pound chimp can kill a crocidile with its bare hands - this is true.

side note: if you want to watch a cool movie (or documentary) you should look for Discovery Channels show "Planet Earth". It took them like 5 years of filming (prolly digital) to make, but has really beautiful footage and upclose nature action. Its pretty awesome. It will show you how 2 chimps take care of 1 smaller enemy chimp (spoiler - they rip it apart by the limbs)...

David: We all know you have some serious ties in Las Vegas. Is there somehow you could make a fight like this happen?!

Holyfield vs Curious George. FIGHT NIGHT. ONLY ON PAY PER VIEW.

FYP

How often have you practiced that "impale the weak hand on the knife" move? How long did it take until you knew you could do it without hesitation? Also, how often did you see your instructors kill?

I know your friend. Isn't he the guy who almost catches really huge fish when he goes fishing alone?

mpethybridge,

Your post is interesting and gives a different perspective on the topic, but it does not address any aspect of the chimp's physical abilities. You basically said that a trained combat soldier is more tactically proficient and intelligent than a chimp, and would therefore kill the chimp. Okay.

Using that same train of thought, one could imply from your post that this soldier could also take out a gorilla, lion, etc...I know you are not making that claim, but do you understand my point?

At what level do you think the soldier's combat skill would not compensate for other defeciencies such as strength and agility? Why does the chimp, in your opinion, not meet this threshold of overpoweredness?

-Andrew