https://rumble.com/vk0siq-jj-pocket-...value-bet.html

JJ checked to river. Do you value bet this spot? Or is check calling more expensive? Does better hand bet flop or turn?

micro stakes hard to think anyone won't bet their Ace or Queen, so I too would have bet river.

I thought same thing as well

wow, hard to say. But as a default bet!!!!

Hoping to get called by an 8 more often than an A or Q? Sorry, that's unrealistic imo.

hand strengths go way down with this many people in the pot. i would like the bet HU or maybe even 3 handed but not 4way imo

Multiway is tough. I'd say in this situation it's fine Because you're getting called by a pp lower than yours or an 8 or 7 or 78 ... I think the sizing is fine as well. NH.

I think most people agree with the way the hand played out, its more likely to get called by hands less than JJ than the chances of a Q or A making it to river without betting.

River has no purpose to bet.

a Q or A by the river is more unlikely.

The river bet serves its purpose as a value bet. Its extremely unlikely an Ace or Queen make it to river without betting. Small stakes often more than not, any pair will call this spot to bluff catch. No reason to nit up, long term you will make more than you lose betting this river.

On the flop, the BB is checking 100% of his range.

Turn, it's still 4-way, so from OOP he should be checking most of his range again. He definitely checks any Q there. If he leads out with A4, weaker hands are folding and he's just getting called by better aces. So I think it makes sense for BB to just bet his highest aces and 2-pair hands here.

River, I guess he could lead out with A4 there, but that's still pretty thin against 3 opponents. He might catch some bluffs from suited connectors with the c/c, since everyone here looks so weak here.

I like a river check, thats mighty thin on the river

you must have little experience small/medium stakes online. Very few players don't bet top pair, any position on table.

I don't think you are right about micros always betting top pair. Micros are full of players who are too tricky for their own good, fish who are too passive and decent players who would not consider A4 a value bet in this spot.

In fact, A4 is not a good hand to bet on that run out, 4 way, from worst position.

In order to be a "value bet", the bet has to have good equity against villain's calling range. What hands do you think are going to call your bet if you are BB? Any Ace and any Queen for sure. A4 does not have good equity versus the hands that call.

Is JJ a value bet? Same question: Does JJ have good equity against hands that call JJ's bet? Same answer: Not really.

If you want to argue that it is not a pure value bet, but also may have some fold equity, I can listen to that argument, but I think the fact that it is 4 way reduces any fold equity edge.

GL, Magnum

Value betting the river was the correct play. This hand was used as an example for my students to show how result oriented even experienced players can be.

Well thank you for calling us experienced.

I commend you for betting your Jacks in that spot, it does take guts.

I would have tried to show it down or check-call for the following reasons:

1. you have poor relative hand strength.
2. The board is terrible for your hand, it just kept getting worse and worse.
3. you have poor position.
4. This is not heads up, this is 4 way.
5. you can't call a raise.
6. if anyone calls your bet, you have poor equity versus their calling range, in my opinion. you seem to disagree with this last point because you discount the possibility of an opponent holding an Ace or a Q more so than I do. That is a judgment call. It is not something that is always right or always wrong.

Good luck at the tables,

Magnum

Check calling would be more expensive in most cases, plus smaller pairs than JJ aren't betting, but they are calling.

I think it's best to go even smaller than 40% pot. Maybe 15-20% pot is best if you want to go this thin.

granted i don't have a strong grasp of micro stakes play but i am shocked at how many people are advocating a river bet. i thought people played somewhat reasonably at 50nl these days and that would make this play absolutely terrible.

bb can still have several boats (and therefore several credible xr bluffs), not to mention random Ax. co and btn can both have many Ax and many Qx. we have many Ax and Qx and even some boats. wtf am i missing here?

2 responses.

1. I thought your whole position is that you don't have to worry about anyone holding an A or Q, based on the action so far. if that is true then why worry about an expensive check-call? You must be check-calling with the best hand.

2. The options are not limited to 'lead the river' or 'check-call a big bet'. You can check-fold if the bet is too big. If opponent bets small, as troloyolo recommends, you can consider whether bluff catching makes sense based on the price.

Definitely out of touch, players call with mid and 3rd pair often when checked down, they always assume its a steal.

haha, ok, maybe i need to stop commenting in this forum.

https://rumble.com/vl3921-value-bett...s-kk-win..html

https://rumble.com/vl3921-value-bett...s-kk-win..html

Really?