Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

No history with V. Is this river just a fold with the backdoor flush?

SB: 108.5 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 157 BB
Hero (CO): 204.5 BB
BTN: 98.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T 7

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BTN calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) J 2 7
Hero checks, BTN bets 4.5 BB, Hero calls 4.5 BB

Turn: (15.5 BB, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, BTN bets 11.5 BB, Hero calls 11.5 BB

River: (38.5 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, BTN bets 28.5 BB, Hero calls 28.5 BB

I would fold turn, you have a lot of better hands here after calling a large flop bet but with pair + draw I don't blame you for calling.

On the river BTN has plenty of sets, straights, and flushes. Generally when someone triple barrels you should be making some tighter folds.

It makes a big difference whether BTN is a fish and calling with many weak hands preflop or has a tighter condensed range that doesn't have too many bluffs by the river.

I fold turn also. River call is optimistic. There's probably a lot of merged hands in that range that will blindly bet through texture changing runouts. Think we'd have a better case if turn goes check check

What's up with preflop?

blinds are probably passive, it’s the absolute bottom for Tx opening anyways.

Why does he have to have a flush? Turn is a fold and river is spew

You can't say you have no history if it's COvsBTN unless he just posted.

Calling or folding here is completely profile dependent. You should call as a default since he cold called BTN.

Why are you calling as a default at 2nl vs a fish who tripled?

Because they way overbluff?

At 2nl, on this board? Third pair no kicker is +EV?

yeah it's a good sized leak to fold.

That reminds me though, I do want to get filtered data for this spot. In general, the only runouts you don't want to call down are 4 to flush/4 to straight.

I agree they overbluff. But don't we treat triples differently to a degree? Also can't he merge and actually beat our bluff catcher since we are so low down, lol?

short answer is no, the data I am looking at distinguishes between bluffing with low pair and without low pair.

The mindset of a fish is what you would expect but you have to make the logical leap in game and transfer that psychology to how you play your range. I'll give you an example.

in 3bps vs fish, the triple barrel line is much weaker than the x-b-b line. Why? Because fish love to slowplay monsters. So what does that mean for us as 3BP IP PFC? That means they have a much stronger when they check, so what should we do?

We should never stab air as 3bp ip pfc when a fish checks to us. If you look at fish x/f frequencies vs stab30. They are 15% compared to regs at 33%. You never stab air vs a fish because of the fishes psychology, they slowplay too much and as a result their checking range is too strong.

Fish at 2nl tripling, way over bluff? That doesn't sound right. What data you looking at?


OP as played the turn is a std fold. River is also a fold.

Looking through my 1m @ micros with plenty of 2nlz can confirm fish villains do seem to be overbluffing this line considerably. Way more than i thought. River seems much closer, but arguable given odds.

Presumably this is because the fish is taking such a laughably wide range of hands post. So they flap. A lot

Folding turn is how a a solver would play, it makes no sense to play GTO ranges vs a likely fish.

Go check your DB and you'll see for yourself.

It's not close at all OTR, it's a snap call.

The reason is that there's a lot of bad rivers for you. So even vs. a fish, when you're at a position disadvantage, it's generally a fold.

I don't have any data at these stakes or I would. I know fish would double a lot of garbage, but not triple. But if I remember, we have different definitions of fish, so that's probably why we're not on the same page here. You're calling a fish any bad player, and all throughout poker, a fish has meant a bad player that is passive.

What are your max agg% for fish... or are you defining a fish as a bad player like ddp?

Overall stat ~31% weak (defined as low pair and below) which is why I said arguable.

But looking at the breakdown, that figure shoots up to 38% for the 75b bracket. So yes if that tallies with your data this becomes a clear call with middle pairs. Vs a fish.

dunno about agg, I have 'fish' in h2n set up as 14+ difference VPIP/PFR.

Looking at entire pool data the double still looks overbluffed but the triple drops down to ~30% weak for this size, which puts us back into fold territory unless i'm misunderstanding

Got it, ty for sharing. And yes, that looks more like a fold than a call based on your data.

looks value heavy to me, and i dont think you can call him a fish yet.