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Old 01-28-2008, 01:25 PM   #1
EMc
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uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

Welcome to uNL University!

Prof EMc is here to teach you some basic concepts in uNL. Day is day 1 in every's favorite subject, TAG play. TAG is the tight aggressive style that is most profitable in the lower limits that we play, and range from 16/14 stats (tighter TAG) to 21/17 (Optimal IMO) to 24/21.

For our first day, lets just discuss the basic characteristics and plays of what makes a TAG a TAG. Ill start

What Makes a TAG?
Solid hand selection- TAGs typically play solid starting hands from all positions, loosing from the button. You will rarely see a TAG in a pot with 72o or other hands that don't have solid intrinsic value. Their range will increase in position, from a UTG range of about All PP, AJs+, AQo+, KQs, maybe a little SC or ATish hand to balance, and then a range of AllPP, Axs, Axo, K8s+, Q8s plus, all SC and Suited 1 gappers, all broadway, high offsuit connectors and 1 gappers.


We will have many lessons, lets first get the basic concepts down and then work from there into more advanced lessons and classes.

Last edited by EMc; 01-28-2008 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:32 PM   #2
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

Uhmmm he tries to make the pot as big as possible when he thinks he's ahead and tries to minimize his loss when it is not certain if he has the best hand? (Just guessing, feel free to flame me.)
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:33 PM   #3
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMc View Post
Welcome to uNL University!

Prof EMc is here to teach you some basic concepts in uNL. Day is day 1 in every's favorite subject, TAG play. TAG is the tight aggressive style that is most profitable in the lower limits that we play, and range from 16/14 stats (tighter TAG) to 21/17 (Optimal IMO) to 24/21.

For our first day, lets just discuss the basic characteristics and plays of what makes a TAG a TAG. Ill start

What Makes a TAG?
Solid hand selection- TAGs typically play solid starting hands from all positions, loosing from the button. You will rarely see a TAG in a pot with 72o or other hands that don't have solid intrinsic value. Their range will increase in position, from a UTG range of about All PP, AJs+, AQo+, KQs, maybe a little SC or ATish hand to balance, and then a range of AllPP, Axs, Axo, K8s+, Q8s plus, all SC and Suited 1 gappers, all broadway, high offsuit connectors and 1 gappers.

Next person quote the list and add another characteristic or play a TAG uses.

We will have many lessons, lets first get the basic concepts down and then work from there into more advanced lessons and classes.

IS this right?

They are selectively aggressive with their hands, and will use pre flop raising to pick up money that an otherwise conservative player would have left at the table.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:34 PM   #4
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

they play TIGHT!!

No open limping JTo, no completing K8s or A3o from the SB, no cold calling raises with K9 or QT
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:41 PM   #5
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

[QUOTE=EMc;2446903]Welcome to uNL University!



What Makes a TAG?
Solid hand selection- TAGs typically play solid starting hands from all positions, loosing from the button. You will rarely see a TAG in a pot with 72o or other hands that don't have solid intrinsic value. Their range will increase in position, from a UTG range of about All PP, AJs+, AQo+, KQs, maybe a little SC or ATish hand to balance, and then a range of AllPP, Axs, Axo, K8s+, Q8s plus, all SC and Suited 1 gappers, all broadway, high offsuit connectors and 1 gappers.

Selective Aggression (AG in TAG)

TAGs will try and enter the pot with aggression. Never open-limping and trying to be the one putting the last raise in preflop. Conversely they will fold rather than call preflop alot which increases their aggro image as they appear as whenever they're in a a pot they're betting and raising.

Postflop they will follow up with many follow through bets(like continuation bets) and raises -only calling with a good reason. As Phil Gordon says "betting has two ways to win the pot - you have the best hand or they can fold".


BTW Nice idea Professor eMc- I like it.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:44 PM   #6
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMc View Post

What Makes a TAG?
Solid hand selection- TAGs typically play solid starting hands from all positions, loosing from the button. You will rarely see a TAG in a pot with 72o or other hands that don't have solid intrinsic value. Their range will increase in position, from a UTG range of about All PP, AJs+, AQo+, KQs, maybe a little SC or ATish hand to balance, and then a range of AllPP, Axs, Axo, K8s+, Q8s plus, all SC and Suited 1 gappers, all broadway, high offsuit connectors and 1 gappers.They are aggressive- TAGs cbet most flops, prefer raising/betting over calling, play aggressively with draws, value bet, but can read boards and know when theres no value in betting and go for pot control instead.Can fold over pairs, tptk type of hands when they are probably behind.
I hope thats ok.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:16 PM   #7
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

I think a good TAG is able to maximise value when ahead, lose less with marginal hands, can adjust to table conditions and knows when to make thin value bets and credible bluffs.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:52 PM   #8
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

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I think a good TAG is able to maximise value when ahead, lose less with marginal hands, can adjust to table conditions and knows when to make thin value bets and credible bluffs.
Pretty much applies to every good player tag or lag ;>
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:01 PM   #9
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

I think the A in TAG is the MOST important concept.

Being aggressive at the right times is what makes playing TAG style the MOST profitable. Playing tight IMO doesn't mean **** if you're not aggressive. You have to pick your spots and put villain on a range and go from there.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:02 PM   #10
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

Nice idea EMc, I hope this is a long series and we end up with some good threads for the sticky.

I wanted to note that the TAG style focuses on a gambling concept that Mason Malmuth calls a "non-self-weighting strategy." A non-self weighting strategy is one where the bettor tries to increase the amount bet in situations that have the highest expectation, while minimizing the wager in situations where expectation is low or unclear.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:06 PM   #11
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

Good TAG play minimizes awkward situations and difficult decisions
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:12 PM   #12
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

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Good TAG play minimizes awkward situations and difficult decisions
I think this would qualify as "good ABC play" but not necessarily good TAG play.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:18 PM   #13
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

Hi EMc,

I think you got a really nice idea here, and am sure that this classroom kind of theory post style works pretty well for everyone. Are we allowed to participate in the discussion?

I think your post about TAGs is a little short, you could've elaborated a lot more on different things. I definitely understand that you probably do not have too much time to post a longer post, so if you need any help with this, I'd be glad to take some work off your shoulders.

- infinity
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:29 PM   #14
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

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Originally Posted by infinity235 View Post
Hi EMc,

I think you got a really nice idea here, and am sure that this classroom kind of theory post style works pretty well for everyone. Are we allowed to participate in the discussion?

I think your post about TAGs is a little short, you could've elaborated a lot more on different things. I definitely understand that you probably do not have too much time to post a longer post, so if you need any help with this, I'd be glad to take some work off your shoulders.

- infinity
please go and reread op.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:42 PM   #15
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

All,

A one professor university would suck. There will other professors, classes and lessons.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:43 PM   #16
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

All,

Monkey has the right idea wrt to replies
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:49 PM   #17
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

What about 3-betting pre-flop?

I shoot for TAG, but end up in the 14-21 to 17-27 range depending on the cards I'm catching. I know I'm too loose from the blinds & I'm too tight on my 3-bet range.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:56 PM   #18
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

TAG responses to 3bets PF

A TAG will generally give credit to an opponent's 3bets at microstakes until given reason to believe otherwise, such as generally loose PF play and seeing him showdown marginal hands after 3betting PF.

Generally the range given to a 3bet at these stakes should be TT+/AK/AQs. The decision to call/fold/reraise should be made with respect to the TAG's equity versus this range with implied odds being a secondary consideration.

For the most part, with a standard 4BB raise and 12BB 3bet, implied odds for a call are capped at around 13:1. Since the 5/10 rule tells us that we should tend toward folding when our implied odds approach 10:1 or less, a 3bet mostly takes away the justification for set mining with weak pocket pairs. In general against a 3bettor who deserves credit, a TAG should only call with hands like AK/AQ/QQ/JJ/TT, 4bet AA/KK for value, and fold the rest.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:00 PM   #19
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

I'd like to present a question to the rest of the class. When does the TAG Player start to throw in Axo in his range? Lets say for the sake of discussion that x <= 9. I use these type of hand when I'm in middle/late position and it has been folded to me. Is this a typical "TAG play"?

By the way, great thread. I hope I can use it to evaluate my own play.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:06 PM   #20
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

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I'd like to present a question to the rest of the class. When does the TAG Player start to throw in Axo in his range?
These hands cannot stand much heat and are generally best for blind stealing imo. I like to open with Axo from CO and BTN if I have reasonably tight players to act after me. They can sometimes be played for value if you have an extremely loose-passive player in the blinds who you know will call down with any piece of the board, but even then I will usually only try to get one or two streets of value if I flop an ace or pair my x, and just get to showdown fairly cheaply.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:10 PM   #21
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

What if you're in middle position and it is folded to you? Do you open with Axo? Lets suppose that we're six handed.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:18 PM   #22
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

I tend not to, but I suppose if you're uber confident in your postflop skills you can squeeze some value out against the right villains. I just think it's too likely to get called with 3 or 4 players left to act and you rarely see a flop you want to continue very far with.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:31 PM   #23
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

a TAG's raising range is wider then his calling preflop range.
im folding a-9 if it folds round to me in the cutoff, but im raising it if 2 people limp.

Last edited by sinderg; 01-28-2008 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:38 PM   #24
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

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a TAG's raising range is wider then his calling preflop range.
im folding a-9 if it folds round to me in the cutoff but im raising it if 2 people limp.
I raise both.

I raise suited Aces, but fold them usually if there are a lot of people in the hand.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:32 PM   #25
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Re: uNL University: Day 1- TAG 101

TAG play basically starts preflop. Start with holdings that are more than likely a favorite preflop. Based on position values can change, JTs is a great hand on the button, but will get you into trouble UTG.

TAGs almost always are the agressor preflop and follow through with more agression postflop because once again, their hand is still likely to be the best.

TAG play leads to less difficult decisions, as well as less variance.

Basically, lets play hands that have a positive expection preflop and follow through with them postflop by, on those occasions when we dont have the best hand anymore, we make them fold the better hand with our postion+agression.
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