Thanks for the feedback. To be honest, I dont see how there is such a big gap between my VPIP and PFR because it feels like I mostly raise when I enter pots, except for every once in awhile when I flat a raise in position with something like KQ or AJ, or when I overlimp in position with something like a small PP or suited connector. Should I not even do that then? And, I dont know how all the state are calculated, but since there is that big a gap between my VPIP and PFR, and because I rarely overlimp or flat call a raise, I am assuming that stat also includes the times that I raise and flat call a 3bet (instead of 4betting). Do you know if the hands that I raise and flat call a 3bet are still counted as a PFR?

Ya, just like me, the gap between your VPIP and PFR is way too big. I see what you mean about overlimping into pots in micro stakes. It FEELS like that it the best way to play in those stakes sometimes, but I am beginning to learn that it is NOT. Based on a lot of feedback I've gotten, we should in fact be playing more aggressively even at the micros, and should be isolating these bad players in position and what not.

Thx people, when I added the (only6max) filter my pfr went up like 1.6% (not enough) Ill play 50khands and update any changes, I guess I just loove to overlimp oop a looot of the time when I know I have the goods & should be raising, its just too sweet to let micro donks hang themselves. (gonna pay more attention to the "fold to 3bet after raise preflop & Attempt to steal stats).
Good varianze for the good souls outthere!!

move up. Really amazing graph for these stakes.

You propably use aggression really well, maintaining both showdown and non-showdown winnings goin up. See u in small stakes.

Yeah those are amazing. Care to give pointers to how you can keep red line going down? For me red line is eating sizeable chunk of blue line...Last night red line ate 23$ out of 36.5$...

Blinds in particular are eating me alive but do you have same issue and just win even more from other positions or do you defend BB/SB more aggressively and ergo won't leak so many BB's from there?

I don't know if I'm on a downswing/variance or this is just bad play. But it seems like I can't win a hand to save my life. Pretty much if I'm an underdog and I go AI Preflop then I lose, and if I'm ahead, doesn't matter by how much, then I will definitely lose to 1 and 2 outers. It's really frustrating when it takes 5k hands to be up +5 BI's then lose it all in the next 1k hands. Any help is appreciated.

valuebet and 3bet valueraise thinner against the right opponents. Cbet more flops then you would against decent players. Be ready to embrace the variance because you are doing so. Know when to stop betting. Always have a reason for an action. Play very thight from BB. Dont spew or get mad when you get called down with bottompair a few times, thats variance, just adept to it. Dont shutdown or play timid because you get called down light a few times in a row as long as your actions where the right ones against their ranges.

Me at 4 and 10nl:



Stats as posted earlier in this thread (would still like some more feedback, I suck at stats).

Dont get sucked in by all these guys praising your redline. At these stakes your blue line should be HUGE, and its not, relatively, with the rest of your game.

Dont get me wrong, redline is oh so nice to have and it is often a product of good hand reading and understanding situations and being able to make the correct play to win the pot. At these stakes though, a break even redline is awesome, and if you are decent you can crush with a huge winrate. Personally my redline is about the opposite of yours, but my blue line is fantastic.

Redline will help you tons when you are in games where there isnt as much dead money and showdown winnings are not easy to come by.

Be warned that Ive had similar stretches over small samples too, but overall my redline has always been a downward slope, until recently when I felt I needed to improve that side of my game to be able to progress to small stakes.

The bold bit is slightlyt incorrect, you should adjust your play if someone is calling you down light, start value towning them with good hands that you wouldnt usually rate as being capable of extracting 3 streets. Like TPGK, usually we go for 2 streets with this type of hand. This hand now becomes worth 3 streets against this villain because he is going to call you down with any pair. Bluffing him isnt always a great idea.


The rest of the post is pretty good though, and you guys starting out, should break each little item down, and learn it 1 by 1, theres tons of information out there for each thing that was mentioned, if you want to be good at this game, you will find it!

Thats true. Optimal play isnt defined by a line in your graph but by the expectation of a certain play. However, a negative redline, even (or especially) against calling stations is usually a sign of not valuebetting thin enough (or its fine if you dont like the variance that thin vbets brings into your game). Its also not like "they wont fold so a cbet is bad.". The wider the preflop range is of a certain player the more you can cbet with air or weak made hands.

Yeah are right but thats basically what I said in the sentence before that.

This is a true fact at 50NL or above. I really dont think its true 25NL and below. I might be wrong, this is just my humble opinion based on the games Ive played. I think that a higher blue line is the perfect example of good value betting, these people do not fold. Therefor your thin value bets get called on the river and the money is added to your blue line. At 50NL Ive noticed that if you go for a thin 3 streets, most of the regs are finding a fold by the river with a worse top pair hand, not always, but significantly more than at 25NL in my experience. When they fold, you win less money pobviously, but it gets added to redline instead of blue line.

In the example we are discussing here. Heres what I think could be one of the problems for OP. Again just my opinion and could well be wrong...

I think its possible that OP has become slightly polarised with his river betting frequencies, hes either betting hands hes really confident are good, obviously for value, or hes betting his air as a bluff. Those medium strength hands where hes unsure if hes best or not, I suspect he may be checking those back, thus losing money from his blue line because the villain would almost certainly have called with a worse hand(lets be honest they dont fold much do they, lol).

Not that you need to worry too much about balance at these stakes, but good players will pick up on this(if it is indeed a trait of OP). Also it will make you so much harder to play against when you start value betting super thinly, because those guys looking to pick off a bluff from you with 2nd pair because of your obvious aggressive image, will get absolutely owned by your weak top pair hand that just value towned them.

When I first went to 50NL, I played a session that really opened my eyes, it made me stop playing immediately. I had called down a reg twice and successfully caught him bluffing each time. The 3rd time, I did it again, and Called down with an underpair with 2 overcards on the board. This reg showed up with 2nd pair on the river that he bet 3/4 pot for 3 streets knowing I was calling him down light. I got owned pretty badly, I kind of nodded my head in appreciation of the guys play then left the table. I had work to do!

My redline too has been plummeting over the past 5k hands or so. Any ideas as to where I should look as to the cause...I'm guessing I should iso the first 7k hands from the last 5k and compare the stats ya?

Calling flop and turn then folding river with weak top pair/2nd pair/draws can be a big leak.

You really should not be worried about a sloping downward redline. Most players aren't going to have a positive redline. Read this article and it should put it in perspective for you.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...t-ever-791734/

I was about to post my lifetime graphs from both PS and FTP(lifetime being may-now this year). Where I have gone from 2NL to 50NL(taking 100NL shot starting monday)

My redline is identicle in almost all of my poker lifetime to the first graph posted in the link foam21 posted. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...t-ever-791734/

Just recently I started to move it in the other direction after coaching, but bottom line is it really isnt neccessary, tons of super winning micro stakes players have big losing redlines. You have far far more things to concentrate your time on before you need worry about it.

Yup, I read that post. Filtered my graph to only include hands with VPIP and no downward slope...just a nice upward trending line.

Hi guys. I know that it says on the first page of this thread to have at least 10k hands before posting, but I just deposited for the first time last night and I'd like to have a basic idea of how to alter my play before I really get started, otherwise I'll only be coming to this thread after I'm in the hole after 10k hands!



What sticks out as my biggest deficiencies?

raise more, call less. steal more. fold to steals more.

I'd start with reading the stickied strat threads. There's a lot of useful info. I'd begin with Fee's guide.

Found "fee's guide" in pdf, looks good. Thanks!

I defend both BB/SB aggressively.. SB i'm running close to 10BB/100 but Big Blind is my only losing spot. I honestly abuse every spot I can and 3 bet in alot of spots on people who play like me. I also 4 bet light certain players i've had history with. Value town every street against fish and put your thinking cap on with some of the decent regs. Thats really about it, i'm sure i'm running fairly warm as well on such a small sample.. all though I have had my share of one and two outter losses.. if people want to talk poker though just pm me, and we can learn from each other.. 6max nl 5nl soon to be 10nl

Thanks very much for the great analysis. I will def try to open up my river game and tighten up from the BB a little. I guess I've been defending a lot more than I should be.

Plz, see my stats and tell me where´s my leaks.

Thanks!



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Hi. stats from nl25,50. I think my nonwhowdown winnings are terrible, but i dont know how to improve the situation. Is it normal for micro stakes?

few things
1. site I play on allows no HUD
2. you can change your name every 7 days
3. When I raise preflop the raise goes to .70 cents should I just start to raise to $1 preflop since most of my winnings come from non SD winnings? or is this completely wrong?