Turn? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Turn?

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01-29-2010 , 07:24 PM

lumileijona

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,020

opponent 25/0 over 4 hands

The other one 34/22 over 75

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.20(BB) IPoker
SB ($45.55)
BB ($19.60)
UTG ($21.13)
UTG+1 ($38.26)
Hero ($20)
BTN ($20.30)

Dealt to Hero J

UTG calls $0.20, fold, Hero raises to $0.80, fold, SB calls $0.70, BB calls $0.60, fold

FLOP ($2.60) K

SB checks, BB bets $2.60, Hero calls $2.60, SB folds

TURN ($7.80) K

[color=red]BB bets $7.80

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01-29-2010 , 07:27 PM

kidacao

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5,578

i cawl , not sure when to fold river .. perhaps any spade? :S

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01-29-2010 , 07:29 PM

thepaul1

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,184

Shove. He doesn't have a huge hand that often, and you have a gazillion outs when called.

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01-29-2010 , 07:29 PM

Maxaon

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,856

I think his range is AJ, KT and spades. It's definitely a turn call. You're almost getting the direct odds. The river is going to be tough. You can fold it unimproved and still have a profitable call here. You can also bluff spades if he checks river to you assuming he is capable of folding for 1/2 pot bet.

Last edited by Maxaon; 01-29-2010 at 07:35 PM.

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01-29-2010 , 07:32 PM

vikingkong

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,497

I would probably consider the implications of various river cards, attempt some pot odds calculations, then ignore that and jam because I have TP and a straight/flush draw.

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01-29-2010 , 07:41 PM

lumileijona

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,020

OFC I'm never folding. Question was really whether to call or shove and what to do on various rivers.

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01-29-2010 , 08:12 PM

Dumuzi

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,621

call and hit. dont see how u can valueraise without reads. u think he's donk/calling K9o?

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01-29-2010 , 08:23 PM

caddymix024

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,900

you can either call or get it in. maybe he has the spade flush draw and a lower pair and in that case you'll have him crushed. maybe he has two pair and in that case you have a ton of equity. maybe he has a set and you still have a lot of equity. get in imo after calling flop and seeing this turn card. he's gonna have KQ a decent amount of the time but when you call the flop and see this turn you gotta go with it. you have good equity no matter what he has and sometimes he'll be stacking off lighter than what you currently hold (ie spade draws with lower pairs and straight draws with lower pairs)

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01-29-2010 , 08:34 PM

Next Hype

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 599

i would call and probably try and represent a flush if the oppertunity arose

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01-29-2010 , 08:40 PM

#10

thepaul1

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,184

I don't like bluffing the river, he's not folding 2 pair very often and we beat everything else.

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01-30-2010 , 05:55 AM

#11

lumileijona

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,020

IPoker Network $20.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (CO): $20.00
BTN: $20.30
SB: $45.55
BB: $19.60
UTG: $21.13
MP: $38.26

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is CO with J

UTG calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.80, 1 fold, SB calls $0.70, BB calls $0.60, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.60) K

(3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2.60, Hero calls $2.60, SB folds

Turn: ($7.80) Q

(2 players)
BB bets $7.80, Hero calls $7.80

River: ($23.40) K

(2 players)
BB checks

What do we do now? He instachecked

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01-30-2010 , 03:04 PM

#12

lumileijona

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,020

bumppy

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01-30-2010 , 03:07 PM

#13

kidacao

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5,578

ship! let him herocall his Q

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01-30-2010 , 03:11 PM

#14

wishiewish

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 11,219

shove turn

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01-30-2010 , 03:14 PM

#15

DragonsAreCool

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by wishiewish

shove turn

Is he calling with worse hands ever or folding better ones? I can't think of much this accomplishes.

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01-30-2010 , 03:15 PM

#16

wishiewish

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Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 11,219

look at stack sizes and potsize.

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01-30-2010 , 03:18 PM

#17

DragonsAreCool

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by wishiewish

look at stack sizes and potsize.

I mean i see what you are syaing he will be getting 3 to 1, but I guess is depends on how much you expect him to call with a Q or a flush draw which at 20nl is probably a lot. I would just think by the way he was betting calling and calling or shoving every single river would probably be pretty profitable as well. Shoving the turn may be better though.

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01-30-2010 , 03:26 PM

#18

Jever

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,737

Call turn, check-back river, make a note.

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01-30-2010 , 03:34 PM

#19

antonio1591

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,304

don't shove turn, just call and hope u hit ur OESD and FD. no point in bluffing a spade because u prolly have no fold equity. If a spade hits, and he checks, 100% he has like 2 pair, maybe even a straight, but he will not fold.

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01-30-2010 , 03:35 PM

#20

lumileijona

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,020

Quote:

Originally Posted by wishiewish

look at stack sizes and potsize.

And we have it- thanks WW.

I rivered trips. I checked back and he showed T6o

Now I dont know whether I would have been disciplined enough to make
the fold on a brick river. Seems like when we call we miss value when we hit and we potentially still get owned by better hands if we brick and he bets (very difficult to fold getting 4:1). So why not shove turn? Incredible equity.

I left 1/2 a BI on the table because I just called turn.

Last edited by lumileijona; 01-30-2010 at 03:46 PM.

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01-30-2010 , 03:41 PM

#21

antonio1591

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,304

i'm pretty sure u have enough left behind to fold if the river bricks an offsuit 2.

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01-30-2010 , 03:44 PM

#22

lumileijona

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,020

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonio1591

i'm pretty sure u have enough left behind to fold if the river bricks an offsuit 2.

Can't an unknown have spades or QJ 1/4th of the time?

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01-30-2010 , 03:45 PM

#23

wishiewish

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Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 11,219

you cant fold river when you call turn.
turn is a shove, not even close.

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01-30-2010 , 03:59 PM

#24

antonio1591

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,304

Quote:

Originally Posted by wishiewish

you cant fold river when you call turn.
turn is a shove, not even close.

could u please explain why?

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01-30-2010 , 05:48 PM

#25

thepaul1

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,184

Why to shove turn:

board: Ks6dTsQd
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KdJd 50.00% 22 0
Tc6s 50.00% 22 0

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