I just wanted people opinions on better lines I could of taken here, Villain is 27/19/6 over 500 hands, we do have history and have both definitely tried to get tricky with each other a few times.

The flop I think is standard, I have to Cbet that board OOP I have a strong ace and there are some str8, flush and 2pair draws, The raise makes me think he's got the flush draw, two pair, or ace rag trying to see how strong I am, I think folding to a small check raise here would be weak given our history.

The turn doesn't complete anything and I feel I should still be ahead of his Blind calling range given he didn't re raise pre flop. I bet for value thinking I can charge any A2,A3,A5,A6,A7,A10,AJ - Flush draw - or like 89 He just calls my bet, which makes me believe I do have the best hand.

I know I haven 't executed pot control and by betting the turn I have made a big pot for my hand but I don't see anyway that if he has A8, A4, or 44, 88 He doesn't shove the turn.... So I do think i'm ahead going to the river, The river comes and my bottle goes, do I shove for Value, is my hand anything but a bluff catcher, should I bet small/fold. is check fold standard now? or have I made a massive error earlier in the hand?

I'm not a fan of 3betting the flop, because if we play for stacks AQ is only ahead of a K high flush draw - Maybe the turn bet size is wrong, but i'm defo charging him while also getting the answer to my question...

Any different lines or thought would good. - Thanks

Its a difficult spot, you bet flop and he raises you.
Question is, what hands do he raise.
Is he really raises with sets here, would be ******ed i think.
weak 2 pairs can raise like A4,A8 and hands like 65s.
Personally i would just fold to raise, because we are oop.
Your line with bet/calling,donk turn looks intersting, but give him a range.
Not sure what you think he has here.
I will try to analye it with flopzilla.
I did some Flopzilla work and intersting result,on flop your equity isnt good,on flop you have like 39% equity against sets, 2 pairs, FD and on turn your hand is best 57% of the time with your hand haveing 45% of Equity.
So with betting you fight for the dead money allready in the pot.
now you have to calculate, if he calls with draws and raises with 2 pairs or better, you loose 2.4 43% of the time you you have to win 2.2 57% of the time and because against his draws you make this, it might be very interesting played, looks not bad.

Don't really understand the turn donk. There are not going to be a ton of FDs in his range and A8, A4, 44, and 88 all dominate you. By betting you're eliminating all of his bluffs.

Hero is oop, got reraise otf and donked turn. Wonder whether for value or as a bluff, not standard play.

Right ok, that might be the mistake i'm making, I was thinking because I know V is desperate to outplay he can definitely have some airballs that have become pairs and draws on the turn - I was betting for value. In my head i'm only ever getting one or two streets of value from him unless he gets tricky with me...

whats a better line then? bet fold the flop, check call flop and turn? or should the flop be as played check call the turn to keep the pot small - then check call all safe river cards?

thanks mate, side question, I use poker tracker and pokerstove to do most of my post sesh analysis - how much is flopzilla? keep hearing it mentioned on DuecesCracked. is it a one of payment or a monthly subscription? I've heard its really good for seeing just how much a villains perceived range actually hits a given flop..

Its 35 bucks, not that much.

This is not 100%, he could call wider but taking this, your play seems to be +EV.
But this i only if he raises every FD, 2 pair and set here.
On flop your Equity is 39%.
With wider range its even better for you, but only if he raises every FD here.
Then your play might be the best because he can cb on turn and you only have to win few because of the dead money.
If he bluffs on every turn, check/calling seems o.k.
Perhaps your line is good, but unusual, not sure.
But with letting him bluff turn and river you could call down if no heart hits, but then you have to know his blufffrequenzies and so on and this could be bad to.
But if he is airbluffing sometimes he could bluff turn and give up river, so this line isnt standard at all, but i saw high stakes player just playing unusual lines if the spot and the ranges they consider make them good looking and here if my range is right your play is not bad, calling flop and evaluate turn and then bet against his draws.

Just looked for only monsterdraws, then its just a fold on flop.
But by discounting some FD you can of course also discount sets and oops all changes.

When not raised bet/bet/bet. As played call raise flop, x/c turn and x/f river when major draw completed.

With only monsterdraws, 2 pairs, the turn is like that, your hand is best 57% of time.
But if you consider this range im not sure if calling flop is good or you should better fold.
He also could have some Gutshots, etc pp, so its very difficult to say.
With check/calling river we have troubles because players dont bluff on river, they often stop to bluff and bluff only turn.
So river would be -EV to call even without heart, esp on micros.
I often bluffed two streets but becaue i think they dont fold on river enouph i only bluffed ocassionally 3 streets with a Semibluff and i think other regs too, so by this leveling you have to fold every river.
Only if i would have some good reads on my opponent, but in general players at nl10 blufffrequeenzies after sembluffing flop and turn goes down very much at nl10.

At NL50+ you have to bluff river too and then it could be a call, observation on nl500 they tend to call (o.k. i only saw hands with calls of course, because the only show big pots, often with huge overbets) , because players bluff to the river often enouph, is like really taking every spot if not losing money, i saw very good players saying its awful to stop a semibluff at river on NL100,NL200, but it depends how light the opponents calls.

But they dont donk, they call and reevaluate, this is what i saw.
All in all calling a river at nl10 on no heart should be -EV.

I'm a massive fan of BET,BET,BET... Fold to aggression as usually at these stakes they'll call of stacks with worse, That does sound like a much better line, do you think that if he's semi bluffing with a draw - I have to bet that turn? because i'm going for value against all of his hands in his range that Can call but are never raising - isn't there a danger of him checking behind and getting the free card? I also find donking works quite well at these stakes for picking up value and lets a ton of players make mistakes.

Say the river brings a black two or pairs the Ace rather than the heart - the action is most likely going to go check check, given he doesn't shove the turn and calls a relatively safe card. so then haven't I picked up extra value that others would of missed and maybe also conceded the pot by letting him catch up?

I don't know - just really felt like a weird spot for me

[QUOTE=philkill;48062440]With only monsterdraws, 2 pairs, the turn is like that, your hand is best 57% of time.
But if you consider this range im not sure if calling flop is good or you should better fold.
He also could have some Gutshots, etc pp, so its very difficult to say.



yeah maybe fold the flop is the best option in the long run - although the fact me and this V do have history where we've both been caught with our hands in the cookie jar a few times just makes me feel that his flop check raising range in position is so so wide....

Tell you what though you've convinced me to get flopzilla ! software looks sick

He can take free card ott. Never mind he paid for it otf and his draw is face up. Actualy this line better for you than if he called draw twice.
Besides you described him like aggresive and often he bets turn with draw.

Long time ago i was donking much, esp oop (I read Doyle Brunson Super System lol and David Sklansky).
I was playing FR ok it was golden era(against bad players to nl100), but i played weired stuff but won every monat more then 1 k just donking much.
i think we should consider donking flops, or play a line like check/call, donk.
This situation often happens Bu against BB (us) and i have the feeling with only oop floating its like we allways get only a bet on river if he improves.
Saw a video for this topic (which was check/call donking balancing with gutshots and other stuff, i also think esp at zoom poker you should raise more flops, because they fold simple often enouph.
If we defend bb wide we cant play fit or fold against vilian that blind cbet every flop.
I made some database research and it seemed like putting pressure is better then this passive evaluate lines.
I had values of like 50% folds to cbets on turn and river and fold to raise of 50% on flop, it nearly seemed we could bluffraises flop with total air and only dont for balancing reasons.

That makes a lot of sense really - everyone makes the majority of their margin from Value bets, so if your hand is ahead of their range you should be donking the turn on occasion - this does mean on occasion they will fold their bluffs, but no ones ever check called their way to Rich. You wanna make the most of the occasions when they have a hand that can give you the value you crave.

PS. just bought Flopzilla - it looks sick as an analysis tool, I used it mid hand - my hand was like 70% against his range on river - with him being the aggressor, he bet just shy of PSB and I was like, right so I have to be good here atleast 33% of the time - regardless of his hand, being as I was such a favourite against his range I made the call - n took it down as he turned a str8 draw and decided to lead turn and river even tho the river was like the safest card in the deck like 2 - Thanks for your analysis and also recommending Flopzilla. definitely going to have use for it.

Just saw the irony in this post - as this time I did check call my way to rich. #Money !