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Old 07-27-2008, 10:52 PM   #51
ArturiusX
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

bobbo releasing books is really making me questioning what I've done with my life
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:19 PM   #52
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

i havent read through all of this, but i wouldnt say AJ or A5s or 67s is "better' than any of the other ones. Id say AJ plays a certain way, 67s plays a certain way, and A5s plays kinda in the middle of them both.
I will say that having an extra 3 outs with A2s-A5s is usually a better advantage than having the added high card value of A6-A8s. A9s is a really meh hand usually, kind of in between whether or not the 9 is really a playable card in terms of its highness. Obviously theyre all open raises, but the question in my mind is when facing a raise.

but they'll obviously all be good in different ways. The deeper you get, the more A5s is good and the less AJo is. The shallower, the more AJo is awesome and the more 67s sucks. Vs a fish, id take AJo any day of the week. Vs someone who is less likely to make bad calls, A4s and 67s probably show more profit.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:22 PM   #53
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

I agree with baluga too, depending on your style/agroness will depend on which is 'better'.

Also, the biggest factor on which is better has been left out of the discussion; its all about who you're playing against. Suited connectors are gold in certain games, while broadways play very strongly in other ones.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:39 PM   #54
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

fyi there are bots designed which play pseudo-optimal in a 6 max NL environment
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:48 PM   #55
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

maybe jesus has a database with infinite stats we could take a look at for the hard evidence.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:59 AM   #56
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

wait so some of you guys are opening any Axs and SC UTG 100%? **** im nitty
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:11 AM   #57
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

"This just clearly depends on the lineup. AJo is a more valuable hand than A4s when playing with donk calling stations, because you can valuebet more frequently, but A4s is DEFINITELY more valuable in a tough lineup."

Since two people asked me about this I'll try to refine. If you're playing against people who call 3 streets frequently with very weak holdings, AJo is a stronger hand because there will be more rivers where you can valuebet against their calling range with AJo than with A4s.

Against the toughest lineup, it's more likely that people will not call 3 streets with a range that AJo will frequently beat. In other words, since tougher players aren't cold calling preflop with A7o otb, but they are calling with tons of suited hands, I think having a suited ace is more valuable. I guess this also definitely depends on the style you're playing and the style of your opponents. In a game where people are playing draws aggressively and bluff raising my flop bets with some regularity, A4s is more valuable because I have much more equity when called when I 3bet shove the flop than when I have the AJo.

This is a very tough question to answer I think and I guess my answer should have been A4s is DEFINITELY 'easier' to play on the flop than AJo.

Also, in the future I will try to refrain from using "DEFINITELY" in all caps when describing something I'm pretty uncertain of...
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:50 AM   #58
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts View Post
fyi there are bots designed which play pseudo-optimal in a 6 max NL environment
lol pseudo-optimal means false optimal. Maybe you meant quasi-optimal. I wouldn't be to worried about them. Any nash equilibrium bots are unlikely in near or far future for 6 max.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:56 PM   #59
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

AJ, Axs or SCs from UTG (let's ignore being IP if only the blinds play) ...
Well here are my thoughts. First of all it all depends on the table dynamics and the stack sizes.
The deeper we are, the more I want nutmakers over TP hands, that's pretty obvious.
The more people leak money to you with Jx hands on Jxxxx boards the better the AJ becomes etc. so with that out of the way let's move on to my general thoughts. I'll just provide random snippets, feel free to rephrase them to dogmatic "lol X is always better, you suck" in your head.

- I do not belive that many people actually call Axs vs UTG openers unless there's an extra call, be it right or wrong simply because the RIO (pseudo)argument has been hammered into too many heads. If this assumption is true c.p., Axs goes up in value, ironically due to less ROI.
- If you don't open AJ from UTG, you may find yourself losing a lot of pots on J high boards vs oponents that pay attention. I think one of the intrinsic beauties of AJ is that if both players are somewhat competent, Jxy flops will be the ones that you see villains make moves on because "it hits their range harder"
- SCs will suck and have little equity and pretty much be bluffs on lots of flops (the lower they get, the worse it gets). It's hard to get value from drawing hands OOP. However you can usually bluff the Axy flops anyways due to the "AK lol I knew it" bias. So in a way they gain more bluff equity than the Ax hands. This is partly offset by the fact that Ax hands will usually have more equity if you bluff with them due to having the overcard everytime.

For me the question of adding SCs to my range or not has always been boiled down to "is hot/cold equity more important or are perceived ranges more important". One of the many poker questions I cannot successfully answer each and every time. That's why poker is such a beautifull game :P

Edit: pseudogrunched this by reading a couple of random posts only.
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:43 PM   #60
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

Thanks clown, nice post. btw, what is the rio or the roi factor? Never heard of it b4!
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Old 08-01-2008, 09:17 AM   #61
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

Quote:
Originally Posted by omaha View Post
Thanks clown, nice post. btw, what is the rio or the roi factor? Never heard of it b4!
RIO=Reverse Implied Odds, ROI=Return on Investment. A4s will make TPNK more often, and when it makes TP it will be more difficult to get value from weaker hands, and sometimes when you have TP your opponent will have a better kicker, so you win less when ahead and lose more when behind, so you have reverse implied odds.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:11 PM   #62
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Re: THEORY- Suited aces, the high, the mediim and the low-

Is the book released yet?
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