plz help .... what am i doing wrong?!!??

Please explain more on why you think the AF is to low. I am curious to learn more about this stat and fix my AF as well.

Awesome. It is amazing what some decent postflop skills and becoming a more complex thinking player can do to your game. Congrats. Postflop skills are IMO the hardest skills to learn because they are not like preflop skills. Noone can lay out a solid starting hand foundation for you to work on or when to 3 bet and stack it in preflop. Postflop is a skill that takes time to learn and patience, but once you learn it watch your graph sky rocket.

You need to read Mpethy's blind play post. Search for it in this thread. It has been linked a ton of times. Also you are cbeting way to much IMO. Try lowering it to somewhere around 75%.

Tell me what i need to change and what im doing wrong.Shoot all negative and positive info here.

lol every time somebody has a bad red line the advice is to check mpethy's blind play

I can tell you this: For some styles of play the red line SHOULD be going down and having a steady red line can mean you are just way to aggro which will give you massive variance.

Dont focus so much on the red line boys and girls, if you didnt have HEM you wouldnt even notice your redline is down because your roll is going up

If you are referring to my post then I was basing my advice based on the amount he was losing in the blinds. I am by no means perfect just doing the best I can. If you are referring to someone else's comments nh sir.

you ATS% is way to low and your VPIP/PFR ration is way to far apart IMO.

No thunder, I am not reacting to you in general.
The guy is losing a lot in the blinds,

I don't really think it's a problem where the "steal more dead money" is the case,

he is just way to loose in the SB
I think he is in the fase of "I only have to pay a bit more to see a flop, lets call", while you most of the time should FOLD the SB, isolate limpers OR steal the BB

How dare you accuse this SB logic of being false Understood. This seems to be a problem with most of the micros players. I have been accused of this in the past as well.

poker is easy
oop is bad
ip is good

oop is bad * ip is good = poker is easy

correct format.

((oop is bad * ip is good + tilt)^2) - luck factor = Phil Helmuth

Most logical explanation = We would all be broke if it wasnt for luck and Phil would own all our monies. Plus durrr would be working at McDonalds.

GG sir.

i don't want to pick a fight or anything, but i see these things being stated a lot, and i'm not sure they are as universally applicable as seems to be assumed.

personally i think that they depend a lot on the proclivities of our opponents, and i would imagine both these statements become 'more true' as we move into higher and more tight/aggressive games.

i would accept that these pieces of advice would be good if our aim is to create a style of play that we can take up to higher levels without too much modification. however, i am not yet convinced that following them rigidly represents the optimum way of playing levels like 5NL and 10NL.

if anyone disagrees, i would of course be happy to hear your further thoughts on the matter

I have not personally played at $5 and $10 in a very very very long time so I cannot make universally correct assumptions for these games just what I think should work. however, the goal of any player posting here is more than likely to get better and move up out of $5nl and $10nl. So devising a game plan that will work there but also provide a solid game for the next levels should be fine. I do however think that cold limping is almost never a good idea and dont see a ton of merit in cold calling a lot of raises and such and giving up initiative. I think you will give up a ton of value this way. Just my opinion though.

fair enough, i can definitely see the logic behind this, and i think this approach might also be best when advising people who aren't yet beating a limit; best to get the fundamentals right first.

not sure what you mean by 'cold limping', is this limping as first into the pot? if so, what about overlimping when your opponents are loose/passive and don't like to fold to cbets? in situations like this, i think overlimping/completing SB is often indicated with speculative hands with little or no ISO/TP/2-3streetsofvalue potential?

meh, i think it depends hugely on your opponents' tendencies, the sort of postflop hands your hole cards are most likely to make, the implied odds they offer and such. also i'm wondering if initiative is not as important vs level 0 thinkers, might be wrong. think i'll read landlord's post on it again tonight at work, see what further insights/thoughts it provokes.

Indeed, i have no expierence in 10nl what so ever.

I play there sometimes for fun, but nothing serious.

Still, playing the SB to much is major -EV.
So the 3 options I gave for playing the SB is always better then calling the SB, or you should fold.

limping the SB is pretty horrible. Maybe pairs you can limp, but nothing more.

If OP is bad tell me what im doing wrong and what i need to change not complain.

Agreed

Yes i meant open limping sorry. Obv is villian dependent and once players want to become much better players they need to analyze the situation for the best line for a particular villian. However, people trying to get to this level are almost never posting in here sadly, but you are definatly correct that it is very villian dependent.

Yes but limping half of your hands instead of raising more of those hands is bad. Sometimes you will want to limp more and sometimes you will want to raise more but this big of gap indicates, imo, that the villian is limping to much.
I look forward to your results.

not sure if you're joking here, but in case you're not,

oop = out of position
OP = original post/original poster

he said oop was bad, not OP

if this helps, cool
if you were leveling, nh

I'm not sure where to look for the information you want. D:

i think thunderfan is suggesting that instead of posting a screenshot of your 'graphs' tab in PT3, it would be more helpful to post screenshots of the relevant parts of the 'general' and 'position' tabs; these will show more detail of your play, and be more useful in trying to diagnose what might ail your game

obviously from your graph, your winnings from showing down the best hand are being cancelled out by your losses when you don't get to showdown. hence it seems reasonable to theorise that you are folding too much. however, looking at some of your stats, like WTSD and W$SD, would assist with the diagnosis imho. hope this helps.

if 2-3 loose players have limped already, you have a small speculative hand (little or no high card strength/TP potential), and you don't think the ISO/cbet line would be +EV, why is raising a good idea?

if you have a speculative hand like sc's, suited aces, and yes small pp's, and since they're not folding much postflop you'll have solid IO, why would you fold?

possibly i should have paid more attention to the stats you were actually commenting on before arguing with your comments

i do see your point when i look at JOhny's VPIP and PFR; probably you are correct to say 22/9 seems too big of a gap, even by my reasoning, for 10NL.

my beef was with the seemingly automatic 'get ur VPIP and PFR closer together' posts that seem to greet every stats post i ever read; in this case i think you have a point, so i apologise for tarring you with the same brush

meh, i don't have enough hands to draw any conclusions yet, only played 10K hands @ 4NL on party, have played 14K hands @ 10NL on stars so far. with such small sample sizes, i don't think i can draw any winrate conclusions yet, so i haven't included them; tell me if you think posting them would be useful. still, i think the changes in my VPIP/PFR between the two levels is kind of relevant.

my stats on party 4NL were 20/6, pretty far from what most would consider ideal

my stats so far on stars 10NL are 19/12, so the gap has narrowed some, but i think if i posted those stats here i'd certainly still get told to narrow the gap some more.

the thing is, nobody told me to narrow the gap when i moved to 10NL, it just happened by itself; there were just less situations where overlimping/flatcalling seemed a better choice than raising/folding. i anticipate this being the case again when i (hopefully) move up to 25NL.

hence, my dislike for the seemingly-automatic 'narrow that gap' posts

I think he is refering to the times their is 0-1 limpers. It is very situational dependent but every time you put yourself in a disadvantage because you have the absolute worst position no matter what and unless you hit the flop hard it will be hard to continue with a low pair. Plus the low end of the Axs will be dominated a lot and never get action when they arent. Obv it is the correct play to complete when its multiway limps and you have hands like SC and suited 1-gappers but that same play would be correct on the BTN of CO so they have nothing to do with the small blind and are valuable from a straight IO stand point from any position and also dont need to be IP.

I try to make as good of comments as possible and don't just automatically post anything. I am doing my best to give the best analysis to my abilities and would never knowing lead someone down the wrong path just to make myself look better or for whatever reason plausible. I always try to state that it is just my opinion and to not take it as the definitive answer. That being said I am always open to criticism by others if I am way off or could do a better job.


meh, i don't have enough hands to draw any conclusions yet, only played 10K hands @ 4NL on party, have played 14K hands @ 10NL on stars so far. with such small sample sizes, i don't think i can draw any winrate conclusions yet, so i haven't included them; tell me if you think posting them would be useful. still, i think the changes in my VPIP/PFR between the two levels is kind of relevant.

I was more referring to you reading the strat post. This is were my post on the guys stats can defiantly be wrong. I have never played much at the low levels and when I was playing there back in the day I had no idea what I was doing anyways. So obv the stats he is getting could easily be the best fit for a good $10nl or $5nl player. I can see much more value in over limping and stuff of that nature at those levels because you will get people to stack off much much lighter at those levels and be able get more IO. However, If he wants to move up he will need to close it because he will be exploited by the better players and soon find he has a bad leak due to it. People at the higher levels do not stack off with middle pairs and TPNK nearly as much as they due down there and they don't auto stack off with TPTK like they do at the lower levels. This will make these moves much much less valuable because your IO will go way down. So I guess you could say my posts are more to help people get ready to move up. If they don't want that and want to stay at the lower levels where they can crush the donks then they should ignore my posts.

Currently 20 - 24 tabling 25NL full ring on stars. My non showdown red line is pretty horrendous so decided to filter two graphs - one with blind play only and the other from all the other positions.

Two questions. Should my non showdown winnings outside of the blinds look better than what they do? Secondly, it appears my blind play is terrible but could this just be a result of me playing tight out of the blinds?

I play a nitty 10/7 style.

Ty experts!

fair enough

also fair enough

what, the landlord79 PSA on initiative? i read it once through the other night, i think i want another look at it... seems what he's theorising is that initiative helps us pick up pots where no-one has enough hand to contest the pot; as you yourself indicate, at lower levels villains don't need as much of a hand to do that so imho initiative will be less important at lower levels, not to say it is without value tho.

fair enough again

can't we first crush the donks, and then move up with the donks' money?