Not jamming draws (see more hands lose than win this way), especially on turn.

But how are they going to exploit us in an anonymous fast/fold game?

Even on reg tables with HUDs, they're going to need a lot of hands on us to exploit us.

They can't specifically - they can only exploit population.

I don't know I don't like to deviate too much from my base game. It could be very well be a good play but I haven't studied it enough yet to know.

I do know that solvers rarely raise cbets IP in 3bet pots. But if people fold a lot then maybe it is a good deviation.

Interesting. Does that really leave us exploitable though? In *theory* we should have hands in both ranges that leave us uncapped on the turn I would think. Of course, saying that is one thing, DOING that is a different story. So would it be fair to say having no raising range in this spot is more of a simplification, like range betting 1/3rd in some spots?

If not a draw, what then?

It's much closer to GTO if we never raise - raising ranges are less than 10% here. Probably closer to 6%.

There are a ton spots where we 1/3 range and real frequencies are 50%.

Hand like I have.

lmao I'm ******ed

I forgot to comment on this hand when I read it.
I think you are correct that V’s are generally betting too many flushes in general, but you are ignoring that they also way under 3! bb, even against btn. This is TT+ way more often than FD’s imo. I think you’re assigning him too wide a range if you think this is the best turn play. Definitely just call imo. Just my two cents anyway.

You’re also going to be able to play river correctly a high % of the time I’m quite sure. (He won’t turn many hands into bluffs on a lot of rivers I don’t think.)

Actually, I played a short stack yesterday on Ignition. They jammed flop with AKo, I had AJs (not the right suit). Thought about it, and the odds of flopping flush (plus, if you had the nuts, you don't want to push people out of pot). So I called. Scoop.

They love to shove with ATC, as long as the ATC are the top of the range. This does include pocket pairs.

As stated above, don't be surprised if TT or Jj shows up (as in this case, better).

However, if board continued low cards, my experience shows that players will call over pairs all the time. So it doesn't matter, big pair going to get 88 all the time (unless a couple of scare cards come out).

That seems like a different situation entirely, if not just for the fact that a short stack is involved. Don’t really see how the two spots correlate.
Also, weren’t you behind if you had AJ against AK on a similar board? I’m confused.

Also not sure why you range V on specifically TT/JJ and don’t think 99/QQ/KK/AA are also in play.

Didn't post entire scenario, might be obvious I had a pair, and he did not, since I was referencing ATC. BUT, yes, there was J on flop. 3bet pre.

Because that were the ranges for that position vs ops position. I play on the same site as OP, and have around 75k hands in database. Besides reports, I try to session review every hand, including those I didn't play in. We get those hole cards as well, along with everyone's fold (the beauty of playing on anonymous site). Thus, I can create lots of different reports, and which hands were played. Can store in excel if so inclined.

In Zone pool, no stats for villains whatsoever, so need to work with pool tendencies. When studying theory, I try to deviate just the amount for pool tendencies, and compare which pays better, this would be a great study aid for everyone to do, if they make reports on pool tendencies, then compare that to GTO.

Alright, fair nuff. Still don’t feel that the AJ vs AKo hand is that relevant to the discussion but I get your overall point. 75k hands is also not a very meaningful sample as that would be a very limited sample in reference to this spot overall. I almost guarantee you that big blind is under 3! by pool, is my main point, so when they take this line they are far more heavily weighted toward value that beats us, and less FD’s, which is why I think call/evaluate river is the best play in this specific config. In another config I would be on board with the “V’s bet FD too often” thought, which I also agree with.

Anyway, not looking to disagree too hard. You play the pool and I play Stars. Feels like a super under-bluffed spot from my standpoint and I’d personally just play river IP and feel confident about making mostly correct decisions at that point.

Definitely keep up the work you’re referring to, in an anonymous pool that type of work will help a lot.

Despite DooDoo's postings, there is approximately 10% bluffing in pool. So, one could conceivably say our pool is underbluffing as well.

The reason I brought up the short stack hand was the earlier post about short stacks and not bluffing. In my experience, they love to shove in our pool. If they are really short (like $2 left in 25nl) - I might give them a bone.

As to the amount of hands, my old copy of poker tracker is on a computer in a galaxy far far away. Bought new tracker, forgot how to look up original license (oh well). Have many more hands, but didn't play significant volume recently. Just spoofing it up. And I have enough to see how pool changes over 1 year period.

Since this is first time back after Black Friday, I believe in quality over quantity (I was getting in trouble when doing the opposite).

Here is an example off of Ignition 50nl, a hand I was not involved in. Personally, I am not calling 3bet without TT+, but the action would ensue anyways (maybe give up with T on turn?)

Ignition - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 153.24 BB
SB: 127.84 BB
Hero (BB): 102.24 BB
UTG: 119.54 BB
MP: 162.98 BB
CO: 185.54 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) SB has K A

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4 A

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) MP has 8 8


fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, MP calls 7 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) 4 6 3
SB bets 7 BB, MP calls 7 BB

Turn: (35 BB, 2 players) T
SB bets 24.94 BB, MP calls 24.94 BB

River: (84.88 BB, 2 players) K
SB checks, MP checks

SB shows K A (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 46%, Flop 29%, Turn 33%)
MP mucks 8 8 (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 54%, Flop 71%, Turn 67%)
SB wins 80.64 BB

Not too terrible.. just snap call.

this nl 50 on ignition looks like nl5 on PS EU

LOL

Hello,

I took the liberty of simming your hand.
(Kanu's Advanced Cash Game Strategy Ranges)



On flop, Villain should be betting about 45% of the time and prefers: a mix of 1/3 pot; 3/4ishpot


Vs a half pot bet on flop, looks like our range is predominantly call/fold.
8d8c ,specifically, is +ev as a raise or call on flop, but significantly more ev as a call.


On turn, villain should be betting half the time and prefers a larger size (75%ish/allin).


vs about half pot on turn, we play a mix of raise/call/fold with range.
88 is a +ev raise and jam, but all combos prefer call on turn.
8d8c,specifically, has the lowest ev difference between call and jam.




Nice hand, lmk your thoughts!

Thx for solve. If my combo of 88 mixes between raise and call OTT it is the same EV so no EV lost.