so i should always be shoving with AKo pre?

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 99 BB
BB: 233 BB
UTG: 114.5 BB
CO: 106 BB
Hero (BTN): 104.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A K

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BB raises to 10.5 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

Flop: (21.5 BB, 2 players) T T K
BB bets 6.5 BB, Hero calls 6.5 BB

Turn: (34.5 BB, 2 players) J
BB bets 16.5 BB, Hero calls 16.5 BB

River: (67.5 BB, 2 players) 4
BB bets 32 BB

Hero?

4b pre.
As played call river, i think we are good >25%.

No shove pre, but 4 bet to about 45BB. This will give you good fold equity if villain is at the bottom of his 3 bet range and will give you good odds to call should villain shove. You would be calling 59.5 more BB to win 149.5 BB so you would need just over 28% equity to break even on a call. If you think that this villain only shoves KK and AA it’s obviously a fold, but if he has AK and QQ in his shoving range, it is a call.

If villain calls the four bet the remainder of the hand pretty much just plays itself. You have 59.5 BB left with a 90 BB pot. That is an SPR of less than 1, so you are going to stack off with this flop regardless of how the action goes.

Why would you 4b to 45BB when you're 100bb deep? Normal sized 4b or jam is fine.

Not sure what the guy talking about 4betting to 45bb is talking about but this should be a 4bet.

Billy please study preflop on gtowizard and watch the videos I recommend before (gotziward preflop YouTube); we are just seeing the same issues again and again with you; you are never going to improve when you keep making mistakes in the earliest node of the game tree

A 4b of 45bb, and then you come up with good pot odds?

Stephan, I actually think that Billy's entire foundation is not good. I'm afraid he doesn't understand solvers at all.

Most simple preflop ranges and basic logic would be good to get in billys head, before even letting him close to GTO solves....

WTF is a 45 BB 4bet achieving here? Just go standard around 2x in position 100 BB deep. I'm obviously not a nose bleed crusher myself, but I just can't understand why it seems so difficult for people to not even look at free solution libraries and their preferred pre sizings. Like I see people 3betting 7-8 BB from the blinds all the time against an EP minraise and then GG egg splashing when they get calls from 97s that hit the board. Like why is it so difficult for some players to understand, that those 3 or 4bet size solutions exist for a reason and were not made up by anyone?

The thing is I believe we begin building our foundation pre flop and in 2024 think the fastest and best way is using gtowiz (maybe I'm biased as it's what helped me get out the micros).

I also agree with Dee that simple preflop ranges would definitely increase his EV but I don't see a point in just following simple preflop ranges; why not learn theory and why things happen so we can apply exploits; I think relearning can be very difficult for many people; doing the long hard work initially will pay off long run. But to be fair either right now would make me happy so we stop seeing the same mistakes again and again.

I am always a bit worried that when I see these 7-8bb 3b Oop in my games that they have studied really hard in an non conventional sizing to crush the regs in my pool by taking us into a node of the game tree that we have not as studied however this seems to rarely be the case and they are almost always the weaker regs.

I was a successful grinder in the early 2000s. First with S&G and later 200nl. After I cashed out and invested the money I earned in my business, I haven't played any more games other than live games. I started again this year because I love the game and have enough time for it. My business is now running like crazy. The game has changed a lot and the players have become much better. I bought GTO+ ​​and flopzilla and started studying. It's really starting to pay off now. I basically play as close to GTO as possible and adapt my game to players and pool tendencies. Despite our disagreement recently, I see that I can still learn plenty from you. And we will certainly do that HU in the future. First build up a bankroll, because I'm not really a gambler.

Because you need to think about whats best for billy and if you looks at billy's post history and see all the easy to hard advice he received (ignored +95%). You would understand that gtowizard won't help here. IMO you need to formulate your advise for 12 year old to breakeven at 2nl(might be the case here).

I really hope for billy he is a troll (not possible that his posts are real questions)

Realistically, 4betting to 45bb is the same as shoving (assuming you intend to call vs a jam). The only difference is that the former gives villain more strategic options.

Shoving is actually a very reasonable option when the rake is high, but you probably want the 3bet to be a bit bigger. That is, shoving 100bb to win 12bb is much better odds than shoving 100bb to win 10bb.

Works even better if villain is 3betting wider than they should, since your shove would generate more folds.