I barely play no limit, anymore. I haven't played any online NL400+ in the last two or three years. Considering I am asking this question, I shouldn't be playing it, now, but I feel genuinely uncertain about this situation:


Full table NL400, table is disappointingly tight.

Hero has been at the table for about an hour-and-a-half and has ~$460. First raiser has about $375, second raiser has Hero and first raiser covered. Both have been at the table as long as Hero has been there.

Both raisers are tight-aggressive and have not been seen to get particularly out of line, and are definitely not prone to post-flop spewing.

UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, the next player raises to $14. A couple of folds and the cutoff reraises to $60. Button folds, small blind folds.

Hero is in the big blind with AK and... folds.

Hero can't decide if he's smart or a wimp.

SpaceAce

Nowadays thats a std 4bet ($110 or sth) / call of a shove

Would really need to know 3bet % for this to determine their range. This is sometimes a smart fold, other-times a terrible fold. A TAG description of villains doesn't tell us too much. If you had said both were nits, then yeh I like the fold but usually I'm getting it in here vs most TAGs

Really, assuming they aren't total nits? I was afraid of that.

I can't quite call these guys nits, but in the time they were at the table, I don't think they made three three-bets between them. Those hands were never shown, so their three-betting ranges are a mystery.

I haven't gotten a new registration code for PokerTracker since my last Windows install, but if I had to guess, I would say they were both in the high teens VPIP, mid-single-digits PFR and both quite low on three-betting percentages. I didn't see either of them do very much calling pre-flop, but they probably called more often than they re-raised.

SpaceAce

This is full ring right?

At FR and given villains descriptions I'd guess this is more a fold than a 4bet/get it in.

FR i would fold 6max get er in

Even 6max I would consider a fold given your description of them.

[ ] Smart
[x] Wimp

OP with your description of the players (esp the part about not having a total of 3 3b's between them in 90 minutes) and their positions at the table, your fold is fine. its a close/marginal spot. by no means is your fold terrible and it might even be best

lol then again if c/o will fold AK when you 4b (idk how he views you) its an ez ship

If I four-bet in that position, anyone paying attention would definitely put me on a big(ish) hand. I am pretty sure the cutoff would fold 100% of the hands I have dominated, and call or push with QQ+. I am not sure what he would do with smaller pairs or AK. I think there is a chance he would fold AK, but I don't have enough information to be confident of that.

I think what I am hearing, here, is that against a "standard" TAG in today's NL400, I should be playing this hand. I guess the two players I am talking about are toward the tighter/more passive end of the spectrum.

SpaceAce

i have no idea how FR is played...or why its still played...but its probably a fold. at 6max, its an easy 4b.

wtf @ cutoff 3bet size. I'd prob fold.

I think folding is fine unless the 3 better is 3 betting quite wide, but I simply can't get myself to fold the suited variety of this hand. It's simply too pretty.

seems more like a fold full-ring

easy fold on a nitty fr table imo

if u raise it's more of a bluff to push 1010-QQ out than for value

well obviously if you raise you're way behind his calling range.

Hm, the second round of replies seems to lean toward folding. At least I can feel that the fold wasn't completely unreasonable.

About the cutoff three-bet size, I thought that was kind of weird, too. Usually, the raise/reraising went something like $12->$30, give or take a few bucks. I was a little thrown off by the jump to $60, too. It occurred to me that an AK or a middle pair that didn't really want to see a flop might do that. Then, it occurred to me that AA or KK could be doing this to prevent profitable set-mining. I still don't know what either player had, as there is no showdown for this hand.

As mentioned, if you four-bet AK, here, and get called, your life is suddenly full of frowns and sadness. I don't yet trust myself to play a big pot out of position in a situation like this against this tighter, more aggressive breed of NL400 player.

Thanks again for the replies.

SpaceAce