At 2 and 5nl, I think it's pretty easy to say that calling a shove with AK is profitable. At 10nl, I think it is still slightly profitable, but I'm not sure how +EV it is. Now at 25nl, is it still profitable to be calling a 4bet shove with AK? How often does an opponent show up with AQ, AJ, or some bs hand (aka something that we're actually ahead of)? Just a question, don't have any real hands at 25nl, but if someone who has played a boat load of hands look and see how profitable it is to call a shove at 25nl with AK that would be saweet! Or just opinions in general. Is it profitable to call these shoves?

In all honesty I have never gotten in AKs at 25NL and not been at a tie or looking at QQ+. If hes a maniac sure go ahead and get it in. But vs. the 18/15 mutitabling tag it has got to be -ev to 4bet shove ak unless u have a read

Villain dependent.

Well sometimes you can get tricky with it due to table dynamics but it is profitable to play AK very agressive pre.
And yes, people do get in with AQ :

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $256.30
UTG: $53.15
Hero (MP): $51.50
CO: $55.25
BTN: $67.45
SB: $65.65

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is MP with A K
UTG raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, CO calls $1.50, 2 folds, BB raises to $8.50, UTG raises to $53.15 all in, Hero calls $50 all in, 2 folds

Flop: ($113.25) Q 2 A (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: ($113.25) 5 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($113.25) 2 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $113.25
UTG shows A Q (two pair, Aces and Queens)
Hero shows A K (two pair, Aces and Deuces)
UTG wins $110.25
(Rake: $3.00)

bump.

and im looking at calling a shove, not shoving. i think it can be pretty profitable to shove, but im not sure about calling one.

agree with wishiewish

calling shove here.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

Hero (BB) ($59.90)
UTG ($76)
MP ($57.10)
CO ($18)
Button ($54.35)
SB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, K
4 folds, SB bets $2, Hero raises to $7, SB raises to $50 (All-In), Hero calls $43

Flop: ($100) Q, 9, 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($100) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($100) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $100 | Rake: $3

Results:
SB had J, 10 (one pair, fives).
Hero had A, K (one pair, fives).
Outcome: Hero won $97

NL20, 35000 Hands, 35x times All-in Preflop with AKs/o
Up 13$ aka 180~bb/100
Well have to admin EV Adjusted I'd be -20.00 exactly
But thats just the times when the money got in preflop.

When I DID 3-BET with AKo/s filtered my 35000 hands I have 102 Hands making 60$
And when I was FACED a 3-Bet I have 35 Hands with a profit of 82$

As you can see; to get it in preflop isnt as profitable as it seems (but its almost never horrible for 100BB!). But the Pots you just take down are easy overlooked.
My poor english.

You win a lot by 3-betting and gaining the blinds + the raise (and maybe the calls)
You win a LOT by 4-betting when others fold their JJ or TT they thought its okay to 3-bet but not to get it all in.
Or those guys who want to "make a stand" vs all your preflop steals ... they will 3-bet/fold sometimes and this makes it very profitable.
Btw out of my 35000 Hands I only called AK vs a 3-bet 8 times; (15$ profit)
This means from my 35 "When faced 3-bet" I called 8 times, leaving 27 Spots for folding/4-betting. As said, In those spots im up like 3-4 Stacks.

It happens.

After you 3-bet, there is enough dead money in the pot to make calling a shove +EV against almost all opponents (assuming 100BB stacks).

yeah. additionally, people should be four betting to ~25% of their stack more often than just jamming over your three bets. yes, jamming AK over four bets is profitable too.

well its not +EV if they almost always have you beat and you're not getting pot odds to call.

example:

MP raises to 1.00
Hero (BTN) raises to 3.00 with AK
MP raises to 25.00 (all-in)
Hero has to call 22 to win the 28.35 in the pot.

Is a TAG/nitish 13VPIP/10PFR/3AF to 20/17/3AF MP (usually) only doing this with TT+, AK, AQ?
If so, isn't this a -EV call?
Or is my range way wrong on him?
Now if the guy was a maniac with 25/22/3 + stats, then I don't mind the call, but for the majority of 25nl players this isn't the case I don't think. They seem to be tight passive money throwers, as long as they are doing the betting

Didn't read the thread full of random hand histories but AK gets better and better as you move up stakes. The only time you don't want to stack off is if you don't think villain is capable of shoving QQ or other AK hands into you.

So you want to stack off if the villian is capable of shoving QQ or AK? Why? At best here, aren't you always losing or at least behind in the coin flip? If he's only shoving QQ+ and AK, aren't you pretty behind his range?

srooney,

honestly, i dont really ever see anyone just straight up jam over a three bet for 100bbs.

additonally, if you are assigning the nitty player a shoving range of TT+ and all combos of AK and AQ you have just about 50% equity versus that range, so...

as a side note, just because someone has "maniacal" preflop stats, like 25/22, this doesnt necessarily mean he is stacking off versus your three bets any wider than the 17/15 player.

Well it does depend somewhat on dynamic, but people show up with worse sometimes, and you aren't doing bad at all against TT+, AK, AQ.

This is a good exercise to do in PokerStove.

This is a good point as well. A 4-bet shove has a different range (even if slightly) than a normal 4-bet.

I'm reposting a post I made in september after I was reviewing my hands in holdem manager. Granted, this was only a few weeks play so it was likely only a few thousand hands. Since my sample size is small, take it with a grain of salt. But its enough to make me question getting AK all in pf against non maniac full stacks at these tables.

how big was ur sample?