Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em online cash games of all stakes, including pot-limit and cap games.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2011, 03:54 PM   #51
SecondChance
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Post-Oak View Post
Would contacting the family really help? Non-gamblers/non-poker players are not likely to consider a gambling debt valid. It's not legally valid. People think gambling is "bad". They will think OP is a professional player who took advantage of poor little Perky.

In other words, they don't know jack **** about gambling or poker except that they have been told it is "bad", "illegal" and "shady". Oh yeah, they have also been told that, for some bizarre reason, gambling debts are not valid.

Telling a wealthy land developer that his son owes a gambling debt and that he should pay to protect his son's reputation is probably not going to work.

Was this from a loan? Is there any proof the loan took place?

Or is this debt from Perky playing poker and losing?
Bolded part is 100% true
SecondChance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 03:54 PM   #52
SecondChance
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdomeski View Post
so you were the mastermind of multiple felonies (with homicide being a possibility if something went wrong) all for $5k at the most (assuming a decent % chance he didn't have the money anymore or, you know, the hoodlums just robbed you as well)?

even if the kid would never go to the police, if any concerned family member got involved you could have been stuck in a federal prison for multiple years. possibly still can depending on how recent this was.

that might be the dumbest story i've ever heard someone tell on an internet forum.
Deny everything
SecondChance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 04:24 PM   #53
perky_
stranger
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
Re: Perky Debt

i think you should just consider the money lost and leave the kid alone. (unbiased IMO)
perky_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 04:42 PM   #54
beaver316
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 252
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdomeski View Post
so you were the mastermind of multiple felonies (with homicide being a possibility if something went wrong) all for $5k at the most (assuming a decent % chance he didn't have the money anymore or, you know, the hoodlums just robbed you as well)?

even if the kid would never go to the police, if any concerned family member got involved you could have been stuck in a federal prison for multiple years. possibly still can depending on how recent this was.

that might be the dumbest story i've ever heard someone tell on an internet forum.
dumb? yes, true, yes. This was about 5 years ago & at that time i wasn't worried about the consequences. i tried my best to cover my tracks. Many details have been left out, but i acted on my emotions and glad i didn't go to prison now that i think about it.
beaver316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 04:46 PM   #55
beaver316
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 252
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Post-Oak View Post
Why didn't he just put it in a bank or something? You know, like 99.9% of people do with money.

Did he bury it?
he had it hidden in his car, it was in the cloth in the leather seat.
beaver316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 04:47 PM   #56
beaver316
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 252
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondChance View Post
Deny everything
That guy in question, died about 2 years ago in car accident. His testimony is hearsay
beaver316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 06:22 PM   #57
krolewicz
adept
 
krolewicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,052
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Post-Oak View Post
Any rehab place is going to tell the parents to NOT bail him out of debt. So I am sure they have gotten that advice already.
why would they do that? debts are debts, decent people pay their, it is not like he was forced to anything (I assume). Can you elaborate pls cause atm I disagree /w every single word you`ve written so far.
krolewicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 07:59 PM   #58
citanul
Super Moderator
 
citanul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: borrowing lunch money
Posts: 18,865
Re: Perky Debt

I believe he thinks that the rehab place will say that paying off the kid's debts would be enabling him and showing him that there are no negative consequences of his actions. Not only do I not think that that is what a rehab place would say, I also think it's false given the parents in this instance have (obvious) other methods of punishing the kid.
citanul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 09:26 PM   #59
Post-Oak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,339
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by krolewicz View Post
why would they do that? debts are debts, decent people pay their, it is not like he was forced to anything (I assume). Can you elaborate pls cause atm I disagree /w every single word you`ve written so far.
I said they would advise the parents to not pay the debt. I didn't say they would advise the gambler to not pay his debts.

If you or Citanul would just use google you would see this is the case. And you would see the reasoning behind it too.

I feel like I am in bizarro-world because I am writing things which I consider patently obvious and people are telling me they disagree with everything I am saying.

Listen, I agree that debts are debts. In my mind, if you don't pay a debt (including gambling debts) it is the equivalent of stealing. Most people don't feel this way about gambling debts. Hell, most people don't even pay normal debts if it is going to crimp their style (talking about legally unenforceable debts obv).
Post-Oak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 09:27 PM   #60
Post-Oak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,339
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by citanul View Post
Not only do I not think that that is what a rehab place would say,

You should probably look into this before you comment further in this thread.
Post-Oak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 10:42 PM   #61
citanul
Super Moderator
 
citanul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: borrowing lunch money
Posts: 18,865
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Post-Oak View Post
You should probably look into this before you comment further in this thread.
Lol, no, that's a pretty ridiculous strawman. Whether not not something is the advice of GA counselors is not the matter at hand. On the other hand, considering your out of hand "gambling debts are not legally enforceable," which is factually inaccurate AND not necessarily relevant to the situation, you could probably leave this thread.

If we're talking about playing on credit, in fact, the legal protection for someone who loaned money to someone else who then lost it gambling (even to the original loaner) has nothing to do with the gambling aspect. They made a loan. Loans are, in general, enforceable. The machinery of the law would not be being used to enforce the gamble, it would be being used to enforce the loan itself.
citanul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 11:59 PM   #62
Post-Oak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,339
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by citanul View Post
Lol, no, that's a pretty ridiculous strawman. Whether not not something is the advice of GA counselors is not the matter at hand. On the other hand, considering your out of hand "gambling debts are not legally enforceable," which is factually inaccurate AND not necessarily relevant to the situation, you could probably leave this thread.

If we're talking about playing on credit, in fact, the legal protection for someone who loaned money to someone else who then lost it gambling (even to the original loaner) has nothing to do with the gambling aspect. They made a loan. Loans are, in general, enforceable. The machinery of the law would not be being used to enforce the gamble, it would be being used to enforce the loan itself.
I didn't use a straw man. I was addressing a specific assertion you made, an assertion which is demonstrably false (and not just in the case of GA).

The rest of your post is also ridiculous (and ironically, uses straw man arguments). And now that I see you lack the maturity to admit you were wrong, even when it is clear as day, there is no point in engaging you further.
Post-Oak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 12:04 AM   #63
WCGRider
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
WCGRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: So Cute and Fashionable
Posts: 6,929
Re: Perky Debt

What the hell is going on in this thread. Someone owes the poker community what is a seriously large amount of money that he STOLE from them. Why is there all of this irrelevant bickering of ethics? When people are scammers (That is what this is fwiw), then they deserved to be outed and feel ashamed of what they have done to the community that has embraced them. Stop attacking the victims and lets try and do something constructive for the greater good of the people owed.
WCGRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 05:10 AM   #64
Land Of The Free?
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,695
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
What the hell is going on in this thread. Someone owes the poker community what is a seriously large amount of money that he STOLE from them. Why is there all of this irrelevant bickering of ethics? When people are scammers (That is what this is fwiw), then they deserved to be outed and feel ashamed of what they have done to the community that has embraced them. Stop attacking the victims and lets try and do something constructive for the greater good of the people owed.
Is this code for "gently allowing a huge TFBaby fish to dump his family's money into the HS games and surrounding prop bet scene"?

I agree with what you said, btw. He should pay and be exposed, if only to prevent him from doing this again.

The whole point is that there's always a form of exploitation when betting against someone else. Both people involved think they have an edge over the other person. No goods are given in exchange for the transacted money, it's pure speculation.
Considering how far from innocent Alec looks in all of this, it's pretty obvious he went into these bets with the idea of taking an idiot for a huge ride.

I'm not debating the ethics of doing something like this, as they're irrelevant in this case. He didn't force the guy to bet and the guy isn't (a priori) clinically ******ed.

I'm just saying, that's not really what I call being "embraced" by a community.
Land Of The Free? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 02:47 PM   #65
nemodonk
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: nyc
Posts: 210
Re: Perky Debt

perky= "nyu dave"??
nemodonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 03:07 PM   #66
krmont22
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
krmont22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Buenos Aires
Posts: 8,078
Re: Perky Debt

Any dollar received in this situation should be considered hitting the powerball.
krmont22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 03:25 PM   #67
nutsinho
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 714
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by nemodonk View Post
perky= "nyu dave"??
the gooch?
nutsinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 03:51 PM   #68
gr8
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 105
Re: Perky Debt

Didnt perky pay you back when you and him conned a guy into staking him and then he lost on purpose to you? Or did he steal from you after you guys cheated people? Its funny you are on the ethics for the epl and come here doing this. I guess we shouldnt be suprised from a guy that gets a plate that says TY PERKY for his car.
gr8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 04:57 PM   #69
traheho
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 223
Re: Perky Debt

I just read some random posts on here. There's too much noise to weed through. I'm really confused as to how I suddenly seem like the culprit in part of this case.

To address someone like gr8: I cannot speak to Perkys private dealings, obviously, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were shady given his history, but to blame me for his shenanigans is like blaming someone with a counterfeit $100 who is two steps removed from the process. In this event, because I ended up benefitting from his degeneracy, I'm almost guilty by association. What I would say, is to objectively look at my history in the poker world and ask anyone about my morality. I feel it would be hard to find it coincidental that my only doubting action is one that is associated with arguably one of the most dishonest people in the poker community.

I'm not sure about the accusation about me cheating people, I think that's pretty absurd and frankly I don't think its fair to lambaste people on a public forum unless you have the information. I guess my biggest mistake was posting anything in the first place, I was just trying to find out more information on the situation and get some updates.

Lastly, I'm not sure what accusation could be made of me doing my best to win money from Perky. Obviously, when I'm 19 years old and someone wants to play heads up for ridiculous amounts of money, I'm going to do my best to win. As for the license plate, its quite a stretch to show a correlation between that and ethics.

Any other questions, or concerns, I'm happy to answer.

Alec
traheho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 04:59 PM   #70
traheho
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 223
Re: Perky Debt

Just to clarify, the 85,000 that Perky owes me was actually money that I partially vouched for, which I have come to an agreement to settle with the person that was at a loss. But as gr8 would claim, another "questionable" dealing nonetheless.
traheho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 05:09 PM   #71
Post-Oak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,339
Re: Perky Debt

So there are people on 2+2 who feel a poker pro was taking advantage of poor little Perky, but it is out of the realm of possibility that Perky's father (a non-poker player?) is going to think this?

I want to make clear Perky should pay, should be outed, and that there is nothing wrong with playing poker with him and trying to win his money. I just think it is a bit naive to assume that non-gamblers are going to think Perky's family should pay these debts in order to save the supposed family honor (is this like "saving face"???).

Traheho, I have some questions but they are just based on simple curiosity. So if responding to them would in any way hurt your chances of getting repaid, then obviously I encourage you to decline to answer.

Is this money you won playing heads up with him? When you extended him credit, did any transfer of actual money take place (handing him cash, some kind of financial transaction, etc.)? Did he ever sign anything or was all of this verbal? Does he deny owing or losing the money to you? Does he ignore your attempts at communication or he just says he is not going to pay?
Post-Oak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 05:12 PM   #72
Post-Oak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,339
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by traheho View Post
Just to clarify, the 85,000 that Perky owes me was actually money that I partially vouched for, which I have come to an agreement to settle with the person that was at a loss. But as gr8 would claim, another "questionable" dealing nonetheless.
I had already written my previous post before I saw this.

I am not 100% what you mean here. You mean that you vouched for Perky and wound up partially covering his poker losses to a third party?
Post-Oak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 05:17 PM   #73
gr8
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 105
Re: Perky Debt

So alec, perky didnt have someone stake him on fulltilt poker, play you hu, give you a betting amout tell and lose on purpose to you? Would you care to wager on this?
gr8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 05:23 PM   #74
traheho
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 223
Re: Perky Debt

Lastly, from a personal standpoint, Perky has a vendetta against me because I exposed him publicly on the forums following his scandal, at which point he texted me saying something to the effect of, "now you will never collect your money and I will make sure you never play in any LA or NYC home games." I'm assuming he took things one step further and spread some rumors about what happened. I acknowledge that dealing with someone like Perky can only be trouble, especially playing him live in NYC, but as a 19 year old, I couldn't even do my laundry. But to equate ignorance with deceit is a mistake.

Most importantly, and my reasoning for this post: The poker community has no protection against theft. People like Perky are free to sweep through and take the community for millions and leave unscathed, returning to his luxurious New York lifestyle, while many are severely affected. Poker is hard enough to beat without the "rake" of theft.

Perky, like several others, have given the poker community a bad reputation, one that causes people to associate poker with gambling and sheds a negative light on our industry. That same light, which keeps online gaming to be illegal in the US.

Poker players are some of the most honest and genuine group of people I know. It's a sin for the mistakes of a few to compromise the integrity of the whole. All I can do is my part in correcting that.
traheho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 05:29 PM   #75
gr8
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 105
Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by traheho View Post
Lastly, from a personal standpoint, Perky has a vendetta against me because I exposed him publicly on the forums following his scandal, at which point he texted me saying something to the effect of, "now you will never collect your money and I will make sure you never play in any LA or NYC home games." I'm assuming he took things one step further and spread some rumors about what happened. I acknowledge that dealing with someone like Perky can only be trouble, especially playing him live in NYC, but as a 19 year old, I couldn't even do my laundry. But to equate ignorance with deceit is a mistake.

Most importantly, and my reasoning for this post: The poker community has no protection against theft. People like Perky are free to sweep through and take the community for millions and leave unscathed, returning to his luxurious New York lifestyle, while many are severely affected. Poker is hard enough to beat without the "rake" of theft.

Perky, like several others, have given the poker community a bad reputation, one that causes people to associate poker with gambling and sheds a negative light on our industry. That same light, which keeps online gaming to be illegal in the US.

Poker players are some of the most honest and genuine group of people I know. It's a sin for the mistakes of a few to compromise the integrity of the whole. All I can do is my part in correcting that.
So someone dumping someone elses money to you is ethical? Are you deneying this happened? Are you saying that this is made up to discredit your your claim? I will be willing to give Blitz 25-50k and let him decide after i present him the facts. If you are deneying this put your money up please. Your self made claims of being so moral oly aply when it suits you.
gr8 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive