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Old 11-27-2011, 01:19 PM   #601
mjm25
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Re: Perky Debt

If it could be demonstrated that a backer's money was stolen to pay you winnings from the freezeouts, why do you feel that you are more entitled to that money than the backer victim?
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Old 11-27-2011, 02:46 PM   #602
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Re: Perky Debt

Was someone watching perky when you two played?
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:44 PM   #603
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Re: Perky Debt

^^^^^

yes, that's why they had betting tells when Perky was bluffing...
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:49 PM   #604
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Re: Perky Debt

Who was the backer? Why would he back Perky? Why isn't the backer on here stating his case instead of letting viffer do it?
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Old 11-27-2011, 06:00 PM   #605
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Re: Perky Debt

SoLost got it right: Alec is not going to directly answer any questions, while only diplomatically answering viffer's without actually being direct and honest. Unless someone else comes forward to verify any claims made my viffer; this will just keep going on in circles. If and when viffer has had enough of this dog and pony show, any 'new' information brought forward will be categorically denied.

Instead of giving my opinion based on selective information and generalizations (e.g. betting tells) I will just say that the language used by one party in this thread has been deliberately deceptive and evasive.

The truth would have ended the thread a month ago.

I wish the best of luck to viffer, the backer in question and Alec in repairing his reputation.
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:11 PM   #606
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Re: Perky Debt

Alec what is your role in the epic poker league now?
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:14 PM   #607
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Re: Perky Debt

This thread is done, Traheho admitted he'd commit fraud if it meant he could have his way.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:23 PM   #608
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Re: Perky Debt

Resign from the ethics committee and we are done here.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:28 PM   #609
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Re: Perky Debt

Perky is the one responsible for stealing the money. He should pay his friend back. He is the liar. He is the thief.

Alec is at worst guilty of being willfully ignorant. Even if he thought something shady was going on, I still don't understand how he is supposed to know that a rich trust fund kid is stealing money to pay him. It doesn't make sense.

There is no evidence that Alec knew from the start this was a scam. He simply agreed to Perky's terms.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:32 PM   #610
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by The STUD View Post
Resign from the ethics committee and we are done here.
$150K is probably a rounding error on the amount of stolen money received by another committee member, Andy Bloch. And the committee more or less stole $18,500 from Michael DiVita. So it's probably more appropriate for Alec to remain on it.
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:27 PM   #611
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Re: Perky Debt

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$150K is probably a rounding error on the amount of stolen money received by another committee member, Andy Bloch. And the committee more or less stole $18,500 from Michael DiVita. So it's probably more appropriate for Alec to remain on it.
does andy bloch steal?
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:38 AM   #612
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Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post
$150K is probably a rounding error on the amount of stolen money received by another committee member, Andy Bloch. And the committee more or less stole $18,500 from Michael DiVita. So it's probably more appropriate for Alec to remain on it.
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does andy bloch steal?
He is trying to make a Full Tilt point. For the sake of this thread, whether I or anyone else agrees with you or not, I'd suggest we don't go there itt. I agree, however, that the ethics committee is a complete joke and while I think the EPL will fail either way, who is running the show and how they have acted thus far are only increasing the chances of its failure but I really don't want this thread to become a general EPL thread. Let's stick to Perky/Alec/victim issues at hand.
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:17 AM   #613
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Re: Perky Debt

From what I gather in this thread:

- Alec has a passion for writing terribly while attempting to sound sophisticated.
- He is attempting to avoid the obvious questions, one being "how can you feign ignorance to not knowing something shady is going on when you have to be dumped money through betting tells to be repaid?"
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(lol)
- He will be cutting and running in a moments notice as soon as the questions get a bit dicey
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:09 AM   #614
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Re: Perky Debt

Viffer, why don't you just post everything you know.

At this point I'm not sure how much more there is to be gained from being cagey and hoping to catch Alec in a lie.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:27 AM   #615
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Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsit View Post
Perky is the one responsible for stealing the money. He should pay his friend back. He is the liar. He is the thief.

Alec is at worst guilty of being willfully ignorant. Even if he thought something shady was going on, I still don't understand how he is supposed to know that a rich trust fund kid is stealing money to pay him. It doesn't make sense.

There is no evidence that Alec knew from the start this was a scam. He simply agreed to Perky's terms.
This is completely how I feel. Viffer just always seems to be on a vendetta against random people. Even though there is no doubt in my mind he has been associated with (or involved with) way more shady dealings then this. If some kid worth basically 9 figures owed me 150K and wanted to dump it to me with chip dumping I would have no problem accepting. Yea maybe I would question him at first. But as everyone knows, "don't tap the glass" so you just take your money and move on. It would never cross my mind that he could be scamming someone else to begin with.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:32 AM   #616
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by teddyFBI View Post
Viffer, why don't you just post everything you know.

At this point I'm not sure how much more there is to be gained from being cagey and hoping to catch Alec in a lie.
Ya, this. It's pretty much degenerated into Viffer says Alec did something bad but won't be that specific about exactly what or at all specific about how he knows and Alec says very little.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:38 AM   #617
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Re: Perky Debt

Never cross your mind? Jesus are you willfully ignorant of what has gone on in this thread? It is not chip dumping that makes this suspicious, it is chip dumping with a betting tell without using AIM/phone/a million easier ways.

Also the extremely dodgy/non-answers by traheho makes it obvious except to the dimmest among us that he knew something shady was going on.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:04 AM   #618
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by so_low View Post
Never cross your mind? Jesus are you willfully ignorant of what has gone on in this thread? It is not chip dumping that makes this suspicious, it is chip dumping with a betting tell without using AIM/phone/a million easier ways.

Also the extremely dodgy/non-answers by traheho makes it obvious except to the dimmest among us that he knew something shady was going on.
Yes.

I don't see how people can just say it's the backers problem and Alec is innocent even if he knew about it. Just blows my mind. Betting tells, no xfer, and no IM or phone is so obvious he knew what was going on but didn't care as long as he got his money. I guess this is okay as long as it's not YOUR money that is flat out stolen.

Viff just post what you know....
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:06 AM   #619
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Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by ike View Post
Ya, this. It's pretty much degenerated into Viffer says Alec did something bad but won't be that specific about exactly what or at all specific about how he knows and Alec says very little.
I spend more time in nyc then most and plauy with these people alot, also alec has offered to post money about this, and on top of this i have said alot. Anyone that can translate my writing will find it.


and next time im drunk i might.


alec beats perky


perky cant pay alec


perky alec come up with deal where alec takes a chip dump by way alec how much did perky dump to you and what was done with the extra? And did you transfer perky any money after the chip dump



alec couldnt beat perky and perky had someone watching him play not a great player but a recreational player. Perky and alec conspired to come with a betting tell so alec could win,


alec has offered to answer questions about all of this and has also has offered to post money as a bet to weather i am write or wrong. neither has happened.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:53 AM   #620
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Re: Perky Debt

I think what Viffer is alleging didn't really come up in the speculation of what really went down for the first pages of this thread.

Basically, what it seems like he is saying is that Alec was trying to get paid by Perky by just playing well while perky tried to lose but in a very non obvious way since someone was watching. Alec was losing using this method, likely due to running bad, but got annoyed by doing it in such a complicated way. The mere fact that he was getting paid in this manner (if true) basically indicates Alec knew something very shady was going on as this method is about a 1000x more complicated than just dumping it in a non obvious way. What makes it even worse is when that method was failing, Viffer alleges they agreed to do bet sizing tells to be able to guarantee Alec got the money while hiding from the onlooking backer the fact that Perky was dumping the funds.

There is no way in living hell that IF the above accounts by Viffer are accurate, that Alec was someone some unknowing and clueless pawn in these scheme. At the very least Alec HAD to know something highly unethical was going on and more than likely, he knew exactly what was going on. This, of course, is contingent upon that Viffer's account is the accurate one, but given this thread thus far, there doesn't seem much indication that Viffer is full of it on this one..
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:25 PM   #621
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Re: Perky Debt

From the thread, it seems that the backer was an idiot to back Perky or had some motive to back Perky other than profit. Most backers with $150K to spare don't back idiots. viffer seems to know a lot about the backer and the situation but he's not telling it.
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:53 PM   #622
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by TwoMoos View Post
From the thread, it seems that the backer was an idiot to back Perky or had some motive to back Perky other than profit. Most backers with $150K to spare don't back idiots. viffer seems to know a lot about the backer and the situation but he's not telling it.
What kind of spaz posts something as presumptuous as that
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:05 PM   #623
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Re: Perky Debt

lol seriously, people back others so they can try to lose money?

i think insidemans post is pretty reasonable given what's happened so far. i mean alec just choosing not to answer any of viffs questions directly is at the very least somewhat telling that the whole truth has yet to surface.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:40 PM   #624
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Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8 View Post

perky alec come up with deal where alec takes a chip dump by way alec how much did perky dump to you and what was done with the extra? And did you transfer perky any money after the chip dump
Do you know the answers to these questions? It's pretty poor form to ask if you don't have a very good reason to suspect this. Seems more damning that the betting tell that you won't give details on.

I doubt Alec is coming back to this thread so why no stop "hiding the ball"?
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:14 PM   #625
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Re: Perky Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by insidemanpoker View Post
I think what Viffer is alleging didn't really come up in the speculation of what really went down for the first pages of this thread.

Basically, what it seems like he is saying is that Alec was trying to get paid by Perky by just playing well while perky tried to lose but in a very non obvious way since someone was watching. Alec was losing using this method, likely due to running bad, but got annoyed by doing it in such a complicated way. The mere fact that he was getting paid in this manner (if true) basically indicates Alec knew something very shady was going on as this method is about a 1000x more complicated than just dumping it in a non obvious way. What makes it even worse is when that method was failing, Viffer alleges they agreed to do bet sizing tells to be able to guarantee Alec got the money while hiding from the onlooking backer the fact that Perky was dumping the funds.

There is no way in living hell that IF the above accounts by Viffer are accurate, that Alec was someone some unknowing and clueless pawn in these scheme. At the very least Alec HAD to know something highly unethical was going on and more than likely, he knew exactly what was going on. This, of course, is contingent upon that Viffer's account is the accurate one, but given this thread thus far, there doesn't seem much indication that Viffer is full of it on this one..
This makes sense to me

I wonder if the chip dump session was recorded on any tracker sites. If it was proved that perky started out winning then it would lend a lot of credence to this theory.

Although all this would be a lot easier if gr8 would just state what he is alleging
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