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Old 11-04-2011, 04:45 PM   #226
eastern motors
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Re: Perky Debt

OP should post the chip dump hands. Viffer is claiming they had "signals". Probably betting/raising odd or even amounts to signify nuts/air. Willful blindness is not a defense to receiving stolen funds.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:48 PM   #227
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Re: Perky Debt

We're getting somewhere now.

Too bad traheho decided to post this then go underground for 7 days and dodge any questions.
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:25 PM   #228
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by insidemanpoker View Post
It is my opinion Alec owes 150k to the backer and Perky owes 235k to Alec.

It is also my opinion that a website should be created listing all the verified money Perky has stolen from people.
I agree, based on the information given. Let's see, who'd be a good candidate to spearhead creating a website... maybe someone with a vested interest... how about Alec? Making the website/list of creditors as clear and public as possible should be a no brainer for him, right?... oh wait, where'd he go.

The fact that he conveniently began to avoid his own thread right when tough questions arose is complicating this process. Alec still has a right to claim his debt, but the fact that he's not here might mean there's more to the story than we know.

I agree the witch hunt mentality is way over the top, and the focus should be on making a public list of perky's creditors. But who will do it? I, for instance, don't care to... perky doesn't owe me any money, and I never plan on playing a problem gambler on credit, so I am not incentivized to prevent future situations similar to this one. I'm sure most ITT are in the same boat. Nothing will get done until Alec (or another creditor) takes some more action.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:13 PM   #229
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Re: Perky Debt

who are these ghetto people u speak off Lima?
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:25 PM   #230
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Re: Perky Debt

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FFS, this.

Also, if I get another post report because you are butt hurt because someone called you stupid, I'll probably tilt infraction/ban for annoying the mods over something ridiculous.
OMG AMAZING did he really report my post calling him stupid after he basically said the same thing unprovoked to me?

hahahahhahahahaha if thats actually what happened thats like an early christmas.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:59 PM   #231
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Re: Perky Debt

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I mean I personally believe that Alec knew something shady was happening, but at the end of the day it is not going to matter, because the status quo is that almost everyone in this industry is dishonest while we all simultaneously believe that everyone is very reputable (and don't even punish the offenders) as evidenced by all the scandals that have erupted over the last year or so.
that isn't entirely true, most who have been around don't believe that everyone is reputable. anyone who has been around for a while knows some random rumors or dirt on a handful (or a bunch) of people who are shady in some way (many different levels ranging from i wouldn't trust him with my gf if she was naked to downright cheat). the problem is that a great deal of it is speculation or a second hand story and very few people actually want to come forward with the information, especially if they can't prove it or it's their word against the accused's.

there's not much you can do other than warn your friends when something comes up in conversation and protect your own ass by not lending money and making your actions clear (in this case im talking about protecting against known anglers).

when a thread comes up in nvg about xyz being scum, 90% of the time someone or many people knew about it-- but even if there are dozens of people that i know might be scum, i just can't go around waving second or third hand accusations.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:59 PM   #232
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Re: Perky Debt

RBK-

STOP

being such a good poster
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:02 PM   #233
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by aejones View Post

when a thread comes up in nvg about xyz being scum, 90% of the time someone or many people knew about it-- but even if there are dozens of people that i know might be scum, i just can't go around waving second or third hand accusations.
I think this is the big problem. Everyone knows of lots of shady things going on, but on 2p2 and to the community at large everyone pretends like everyone else is reputable even if they believe they aren't. When no one is willing to rat the scumbags out, it really perpetuates the problem.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:03 PM   #234
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by krmont22 View Post
I think this is the big problem. Everyone knows of lots of shady things going on, but on 2p2 and to the community at large everyone pretends like everyone else is reputable even if they believe they aren't. When no one is willing to rat the scumbags out, it really perpetuates the problem.
how can you though? it'll almost always be slander/libel.

edit: it's not like people walk around video taping real life
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:07 PM   #235
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Re: Perky Debt

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how can you though? it'll almost always be slander/libel.

edit: it's not like people walk around video taping real life
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Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image. It is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).[1]
Your friend Wikipedia does not agree.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:07 PM   #236
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Re: Perky Debt

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how can you though? it'll almost always be slander/libel.

edit: it's not like people walk around video taping real life
It may or may not be slander or libel, but the people you are accusing are never going to file charges. They either will not press bc your accusations are true, or they will easily provide evidence to the contrary and you will apologize.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:12 PM   #237
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Re: Perky Debt

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Your friend Wikipedia does not agree.
i assume you mean because these statements are true, but that is also assuming that i can prove they are true-- which i cannot, if it is second or thidr hand information, and still can't sometimes even if i was there.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:13 PM   #238
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Re: Perky Debt

ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK AT the pot so and so dragged in. He bought dinna. What a reputable bloke. I stole bloke from overseas.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:14 PM   #239
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Re: Perky Debt

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i assume you mean because these statements are true, but that is also assuming that i can prove they are true-- which i cannot, if it is second or thidr hand information, and still can't sometimes even if i was there.
someone sues you for libel... burden of proof is not on you
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:20 PM   #240
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Re: Perky Debt

guys lets stop all the meaningless libel talk etc.

clearly no normal human being is going to go running to the internet to post 3rd hand gossip they hear.

first of all its like being a 12yr old girl and not in the good way, and 2nd of all its a really good way to never have anyone tell you anything again.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:21 PM   #241
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Re: Perky Debt

true gangstas do it anonymously
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:38 PM   #242
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Re: Perky Debt

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guys lets stop all the meaningless libel talk etc.

clearly no normal human being is going to go running to the internet to post 3rd hand gossip they hear.

first of all its like being a 12yr old girl and not in the good way, and 2nd of all its a really good way to never have anyone tell you anything again.
saying no one should inform the community of possible scammers, scumbags, cheats, thieves, etc because they may lose their place in the gossip circle is a pretty weak argument.

building reputations on 2nd and 3rd hand information is extremely standard, so i dont understand why we shouldn't be allowed to do the opposite. the entire purpose is to protect the community.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:41 PM   #243
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by krmont22 View Post
saying no one should inform the community of possible scammers, scumbags, cheats, thieves, etc because they may lose their place in the gossip circle is a pretty weak argument.

building reputations on 2nd and 3rd hand information is extremely standard, so i dont understand why we shouldn't be allowed to do the opposite. the entire purpose is to protect the community.
ya cuz thats exactly what i said.....

and can't really have a serious conversation with you if you don't understand what i'm saying.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:47 PM   #244
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Re: Perky Debt

Let's say person A is cheating. B sees it first hand, but plays it cool with A. Maybe they're friends. Maybe B wants to get the word about but is afraid A will get revenge if he finds out it was B that outed him. Maybe B has his own secrets he needs kept quiet.

B tells his friends C1-C10 about it because he thinks A is a scumbag, and doesn't want to see his friends get cheated by A. B makes it very clear that he's ****ed if someone outs him as the source.

C1 tells D1-D5 with the same caveat. Keep it on the down low or else it gets traced back to me and B hates me for life. Obv A will know it went through B since we're friends.

So 50 people know about it that are close enough to the source to be confident it's true. Anyone E or lower in the alphabet just has a rumor. Even if the rumor is true, the details have probably been distorted by now.

So either you're close enough to the source that someone gets screwed over, or you're far enough away that you can't provide evidence or be confident it's accurate.

It sucks in the sense that people get away with bad **** all the time. The silver lining is that word does get out in some form or another. Sometimes you don't need the whole puzzle to draw a conclusion about someone. Look at the company they keep for starters. When I think of a list of people that I know to be cheaters that aren't known as cheaters by NVG, groups of people come to mind more so than individuals. I think most posters in HSNL have many of the same groups of people come to mind.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:56 PM   #245
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Re: Perky Debt

Can you explicitly explain what you meant by "its a really good way to never have anyone tell you anything again."?
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:01 PM   #246
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Re: Perky Debt

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Can you explicitly explain what you meant by "its a really good way to never have anyone tell you anything again."?
someone tells me they heard from someone they trust a lot that there is a good chance XYZ added chips to his stack while cross booking.
that person says you have to swear to not tell anyone, that person is someone you respect.
you agree even tho you tell him that is something people should know about, he agrees but says its neither his nor your place to be the one to go public.

you go home and post on 2p2 what you just heard.

now maybe you don't care about keeping your word and feel your so morally obligated to look out for the community that you're willing to ruin that friendship etc but i'm not.
if you think there is something wrong with that i don't know what to tell ya bud.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:10 PM   #247
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Re: Perky Debt

After drinking a bottle of wine I decided the safest way of getting my poker fix on a Friday night, was to peruse 2+2 (rather than actually play poker). I decided to dream of being a big-time pro and browse through the high-stakes forum. This post intrigues me. After reading it I still have no more than hints and suggestions as to what actually happened.

If anyone would be kind enough to elaborate on what the situation is, for a bemused rubber-necker like me, i would be grateful.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:14 PM   #248
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Re: Perky Debt

Any chance that you guys can take this discussion to a separate thread? It has very little to do with the OP and the situation at hand and maybe belongs more appropriately in a general discussion thread.

RBK I would be interested in your opinion on the two issues at hand in light of how this thread has progressed. As I said, I think perky owes Alec 235k and Alec owes the backer 150k based on the fact that there is basically no chance this was a scheme to freeroll Alec and as such, he was not freerolled. I also believe Perky should be outed more publicly than this.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:19 PM   #249
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Re: Perky Debt

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Originally Posted by insidemanpoker View Post
Any chance that you guys can take this discussion to a separate thread? It has very little to do with the OP and the situation at hand and maybe belongs more appropriately in a general discussion thread.

RBK I would be interested in your opinion on the two issues at hand in light of how this thread has progressed. As I said, I think perky owes Alec 235k and Alec owes the backer 150k based on the fact that there is basically no chance this was a scheme to freeroll Alec and as such, he was not freerolled. I also believe Perky should be outed more publicly than this.
i mean obv if what viffer says is true then alec owes the money.

i have no idea if what viffer is saying is true or not.
i haven't had any negative dealings with alec, but viffer also doesn't seem to throw allegations around lightly.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:16 AM   #250
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Re: Perky Debt

Just read through the whole thread. Thank god some reasonable people showed up toward the end. The idea that Alec's somehow liable to the backer that perky screwed over just for taking money that he was legitimately owed is ridiculous. If someone owes you $150K and then makes plans to pay it, you're obviously not going to press him too hard on what the terms are. Yes, it's a little bit of a suspicious situation, but as has been brought up dozens of times in this thread, poker players are often naive. If perky regularly played on different accounts it makes perfect sense that one might not have been authorized for a 6-figure transfer.

Now, if someone actually has some evidence that Alec knew what was going on, they should bring it forward and we can weigh it on its merits, but the idea that he "owes" 150K here because Perky broke his agreement with his backer is just ludicrous.
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