That's because I don't necessarily agree. Think the job market for young people is in a very precarious state. Having any sort of blemish on your CV (and unfortunately, for most people, a few year's of poker will come off very negatively) puts you at a severe disadvantage.

I do think (know) with the correct wording, showing some quantitative evidence - your results -, and demonstrating other good qualities (eg volunteer, sport, etc) it is possible for your poker background to become a differentiating factor and an asset.

It's obviously super dumb. If you can make a living at poker these days, you're smarter, more creative, and harder working than most who work "real-jobs".

Interesting. Well, somewat logical since most setups have only 60% if u daytrade anyways but was under the expectation you can be more consistent than in poker (less variance). You daytrade? Wat are you trading?

I work at a prop trading firm specializing in equities (US only). I wouldn't say I'm a straight day-trader, but probably 90-95% of my volume is day trades. The rest is swing usually max of 1-2 weeks. But I haven't really swung much since 2014.

Mostly trade fresh news, earnings stock, and tech. But whatever is trading heavy volume, trading in a big range.

Traders, like poker players, are constantly evolving. When I started in 2011 a lot of guys were very consistent (80% winning days a month/bigger winners than losers/big consistent edge). Through 2014 this sort of style worked well (bulllll market). Then things changed and you had to be much more selective. Still plenty of edge to be had.

2015 was a pretty quiet year except the flash crash day. 2016 thus far I've put up my least volume over 3 months in all 5 years just nothing going on in the markets yet. I think the macro over-hang is really taking a toll on individual movers. To me, big money seems really confused and not making moves.

I think trading is a very valid career still for some. You just have to have huge risk-tolerance (not good for nits) and when you see your trade, you have to smash it (eg if you're wrong losing a meaningful amount). This will sound familiar, but traders looooove to talk about "the good old days" when trading was sooo easy. I think if you're looking for "easy" money trading is not a good transition from poker. But if you want to work hard and work for yourself then it's a good fit

I don't believe it will be a tough issue to get a normal job.
Especially if you're 18-25, but even if you're 30ish.

If you have been a winner for a decent period of time, chances are you are a smart dude and that will transition into everything.
With rare exceptions, I don't think you can be a mess of a person in real life but win consistently at poker.
The life flaws that you have transition themselves into poker, at least for me and for the ppl I've coached. And if those flaws are major you're just not gonna win.

So really, you can be a person that never cooked an egg in his life, take a cooking course and can get a job as a cook bc you're smart enough to pick it up if you study it a bit.

The real problem is: let's say you're a pro for years like TimStone, you won $ every year, enjoyed the freedom that this game gave you, how the fk are you ever gonna be anything other than depressed (not to mention happy) working 9-5 FOR someone?
For me at least, I'd rather live in a small 1 room home and eat cheap vegetable salad 3 times a day for the rest of my life but still have my freedom rather than doing a high paid 9-5 schedule(which if you count travel time, get ready, overtimes...its actually 8-6 at least)

You're only telling half of a story. I used to grind full time but in 2015 I found a career i love and prefer this so much more to the stress/boredom of grinding holdem.

In the 9-5 world, your prospects actually look up rather than indefinitely down, and the better you perform at your job the more autonomy you gain. Add a whole host of other benefits e.g. increased status, more money as you go and it's a myth to say it's going to be depressing. The 9-5 is an investment, and one you're naturally better off starting young. To say you'd be happier eating noodles in a 1 bedroom flat grinding 25nl while your old school friends buy houses and BMW's is pretty ridiculous imo. Even if i was somehow given teh TimStone's poker brain and offered to quit my job right now i wouldn't take it.

I haven't got a job yet, but I've had a number of interviews in which I've had to talk about poker, and I've consistently been given the impression (whether truthfully or not) that the poker wasn't the problem. A couple of points I'd make:

1) If you've done any coaching or video-making, direct focus to that; it's less controversial and it can illustrate a wider range of skills.
2) Work on talking about the transferable skills that poker has given you. Talk about how hand-reading is essentially a process of deductive logic etc. Assume that most people in professional careers understand enough basic economics to be familiar with the concept of an equilibrium.

Depends on what job is being applied for but anything less than a 5 year gap I wouldn't put poker on a cv. Not unless applying for a trading job or something similar.

Lots of poker pros took advantage of the flexibility and traveled all over the place which is what I would say if asked about my gap. I think some employers would be envious considering lots of employees sit in their cubicles daydreaming about getting out and seeing the world.

Lmao, woooollllly to teh rescue please. Im really not v good im just very effective in what i do...

I have 7 year gap now + mediocre degree (at least degree though). Zero chance i get any sort of job in any sort of bigger well known company for decent pay. Hell i didnt even got a job in 2008 directly after graduation even though i wrote like 70 applications which is why i ultimatively ended up playing poker in teh first place.
Apart from this after 8 years of sitting in front of a computer my social skills are so lol that latest at teh interview they would tell me to gtfo.
Thankfully theres teh internet and some plan Bs and for now poker is still ok to pay teh bills but some people have a very wrong perception how hard it is to get a decent lol_realjob w/o iv(e)y league education...

well I do have a top university degree and even with the 10 year gap in not working somewhere I could still get a top fulltime job.
So I might be overestimating how easy it is to get one.
But I don't view that as an option. I'd rather buy some apartment(s) with the $ made from poker and rent that while living in a small home rather than getting a high paid 9-5 job.
I quit a good job to start working as a freelancer than as a poker player.

Someone above says that he is happy at his 9-5 job and your prospect will look up rather than down, status, more money(well at this stage poker still means way more money).
That can certainly be true for many people.

But for me at least and I imagine there are plenty like me in this biz, no $ amount, status("my buddies look at me with envy bc I am a highly respected doctor") will not buy me the freedom of going for a walk in the park at 12 pm on Tuesday if I feel like going for a walk in the park at 12 pm on Tuesday.

Or maybe it's just me :-)

Also, I see many players on 2+2 and even on local Romanian forums complain about the so called low social status of having a poker career.

The ones who feel that way, what social circles do you run into?
It's mostly an attitude thing, if someone asks you what you do for a living, you can say you're the kind of the universe but if you tell it in an ashamed tone they'll still think you suck.
When I have to answer that, I answer it proudly and it's genuine not bragging and bc they can tell that they usually get intrigued too and view you as a more interesting than usual person.

And if I am in a social circle that is too serious, old in age and in spirit, I just say I am a freelancer, working on the internet only and not mention poker specifically. Again, with pride.

Or if you are into a younger more fun circle you can just ask them to guess out of 100 attempts.

Never had an issue with getting crapped on for not having a real job, and I don't have one for 10 years.

If by top fulltime job you mean as in "the games in 2016 are TOP" you maybe right, if you literally mean what you wrote you are wrong unless you went to harvard and co.
You also underestimate the gap, you wont even get interviews with that gap in any sort of TOP job.

But you are rite, can always buy a bunch of apartments with the money saved. Brb.
Well, just checked, can buy 60% of an apartment, nvmd

Lol.

I think our ideas of what a top job means is different. No, a guy with a big resume gap and a weak degree isn't going to work on Wall Street or be hot shot lawyer or work for an Fortune 500.

But they can still go back to college, get a degree in something IT related while working at certs and wind up with a pretty solid job that doesn't require lots of social interaction if that's not your thing

I mean it relative to this country(Romania). I'd rather not move to another country, it's pretty cool to live here.
The university was #1 in the IT field in the country and the salary would be around 1500 to start with and would go to around 2500$ after a while.
Considering the average guy gets 300$ here, it would be good.
Unless you are in a leadership position or have your own biz, you can't get much higher than that salary wise here.
That is TOP relative to the country as a non-leader employer, it's still gonna seem like crap to you probably :-)

I know guys with similar background with around 6-7 years gap do it no problem.(working at EA Sports, good enough I guess?)
It's common for IT guys to have a gap and work freelance.
This won't apply to any field obviously.

If it makes you feel better, I'd hire you as a private fitness instructor, so you'd have a good shot there. Not top job, but pretty fun one.
(I'd certainly take that over an IT job)

About the apartment thing, well you said you earned 250k in year x, 100k+ in the other years, I assumed you were sane enough to save 25%+ out of all of that and not lived paycheck to paycheck.
An apartment here is 40-60k, you're welcomed to move here and we can do the private fitness instructor thing too.
See? it all works out :-)


P.S: I didn't say games in 2016 are TOP, I said it's not as good as in previous years but not bad either.
Use a normal translator instead of a TimStone translator

If the avg guy makes 300/m how can you rake aeeeh rent them though? 100?

Sorry, who would buy real estate in Romania?!

This could actually be good, TimStone pro poker player turned Romanian slumlord king pin. Plz keep your blog updated

i quote:

That was just for February and I was asking how the games were lately as well.
I think you posted a 10k month graph somewhere for February as well? (not sure if it was an old graph or not)
That doesn't translate into "2016 games are TOP"

haha interesting discussion i like it was provoked by d7 sass. This is my favorite reply



Sometimes I almost forget that other people can think like this. It's funny that becoming a decent poker pro shows so many good qualities and skills that almost all fields would want for their employees but not mentioning it still a half decent option . I would never consider getting a 9-5 unless i had some kids depending on me. Rent in the forest is cheap yo.

A 40k one rents at close to 200/m.

Who would buy real estate in Romania? Dunno, I was just speaking about my local options, there may be better options in other countries.
The country is pretty nice(no matter what your opinion of it might be from the media) or I would've moved my ass outta here long time ago.

I was obv joking when asking Tim to move here. It may be tougher if you live in the Western countries as you need more $ there so I am not familiar with what your options are in those countries.

Finally some sanity back to this discussion.
TimStone, forget about coming to Romania, sit your depression inducing attitude about careers at home.
I'd happily trade my diploma and skills(not gonna use that anyway) that would get you a good IT job in the west for a meaningless thing like a 6pack.
TonnaMunz, you're cool, feel free to come instead:-)


I think the guy who posted that had kids and was married, I could see that changing your views, but as long as you are not then hell yea, rent in forest FTW

in eastern euro u can live under teh tree, but ur not considered a real man unless u drive a bmw or a merc. So u only need bout 4k$ to get a somewhat decent used bumer and bout couple of hundo for burgers/vodka/gas each month and ur set.

also wtf deep ante is just ante tables now :'(

That should decrease my lossrate quite a bit

Idd. However when u played barely breako in jan and ur monthly expenses are 5k-ish then it really nothing which makes ur pants wet.

I always played poker to have teh freedom AND DRIVE A 400HP CAR. And couple moar years down teh road there will be only freedom left. Thats teh positive, they can take away americans, they can take away our rakeback BUT THEY CANT TAKE AWAY OUR FREEDOM.

Bilzerian said something very real a while ago when he said "its not even about teh money, teh money gives you teh freedom to do w/e teh **** you want to do"
So as nice as freedom maybe how free are you if you cant afford that plane ticket to visit ur friends, cant afford that clothes u need for winter, cant afford to eat in that restaurant, cant afford to drink in that club, cant afford that nice flat, etc

Money = Freedom and once teh money in poker is gone you can tell youself that at least you are free, and maybe if you do it often enuff you start believing it (like joe tall believes dc created moar fish than regs) but in reality you arent free at all...

who the **** spends 5k/mo outside of like London