** Official August uBBV Thread ** - Page 289 - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

He means hero should be raising 9x hands here for value etc.... so if hero only raises top set for value on this flop then he isn't raising thin enough.

I agree with WOO to an extent but I agree that most 25nl villains won't raise 9x here and therefore your argument about the small amount of combos is correct.

If thats Wizard's arguement he needs a NL25 reality check, the only time Ive ever seen anyone show up with 9x in this kind of spot at these limits is vs fish who dont know what theyre doing.

08-25-2010 , 04:37 PM

#7202

Sc00by

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by joephe

If thats Wizard's arguement he needs a NL25 reality check, the only time Ive ever seen anyone show up with 9x in this kind of spot at these limits is vs fish who dont know what theyre doing.

IDK, Even the regs dont fold, Im value betting 9x on this river versus most.

08-25-2010 , 04:38 PM

#7203

TheWizardOfOddz

banned

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by joephe

You havent countered my arguement whatsoever.

You are making too many assumptions so how can i counter that.

Gis has to be bluffing 48% of the time to make this call breakeven and i doubt he will be 3barelling that specific river all that often since villain will never fold 9x + (apparently even 3x) since all draws missed and since he called the turn.

08-25-2010 , 04:39 PM

#7204

joephe

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,298

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc00by

IDK, Even the regs dont fold, Im value betting 9x on this river versus most.

Agreed, if I had a 9 in that spot Id be happy playing it that way, my point is you just about never see it at NL25, most regs have a very polarised c/r bet bet range on dry boards.

08-25-2010 , 04:40 PM

#7205

Stackajawea

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,102

ya I think villain played it the second best way possible other than folding turn.

08-25-2010 , 04:40 PM

#7206

gsiciliano

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,942

I really cannot believe the discussion about my hand. Of course I know that I don´t rep MUCH, but I doesn´t matter... I was playing 20/19 and didn´t show any bluffs, he had absolutely no reason to think I was bluffing. My line is not a bluff as a default, it´s usually the nuts untill proven otherwise. To call me down that light he should at least have some kind of a read at all.

08-25-2010 , 04:41 PM

#7207

Sc00by

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by joephe

Agreed, if I had a 9 in that spot Id be happy playing it that way, my point is you just about never see it at NL25, most regs have a very polarised c/r bet bet range on dry boards.

I didnt realise the flop was c/r by hero. Changes things slightly. I would need A9 to jam river I think.

Im never expecting a 25NL reg to fold a PP here. We will inevitably value cut ourselves some % of the time, but villain dependant obv.

08-25-2010 , 04:41 PM

#7208

Comstizzle

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,298

i think if hero is able to go for thin value OTT with a T it's a fold

08-25-2010 , 04:41 PM

#7209

benjamin barker

Hail to the King

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 6,716

tryin to comment too much on the A3 hand is pointless w/o reads also

against a total unknown i would not like the call down i suppose

08-25-2010 , 04:43 PM

#7210

Sc00by

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsiciliano

I really cannot believe the discussion about my hand. Of course I know that I don´t rep MUCH, but I doesn´t matter... I was playing 20/19 and didn´t show any bluffs, he had absolutely no reason to think I was bluffing. My line is not a bluff as a default, it´s ysyally the nuts untill proven otherwise. To call me down that light he should at least have some kind of a read at all.

People stack off lighter LPvB, but I do agree, nuts/air ratio is hugely weighted to nuts, even if you are polarised.

FWIW I can play JJ this way. As well as A9. So I dont think you are as polarised as mentioned ITT.

08-25-2010 , 04:44 PM

#7211

joephe

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,298

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWizardOfOddz

Actually its about 32.5% he needs to be bluffing to breakeven on a call.

I dont know what read villain had on Gis, in all honesty he probably wasnt thinking too hard about it. As I mentioned above, NL25 regs have such polarised ranges in this spot generally and very few of them are thinking to such a level that when all the draws miss they shouldnt be bluffing.

08-25-2010 , 04:45 PM

#7212

TheWizardOfOddz

banned

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjamin barker

tryin to comment too much on the A3 hand is pointless w/o reads also

against a total unknown i would not like the call down i suppose

ya, your default should not be to call down if villain does not rep much because it "wont be the worst call ever". Sure it wont be the worst but it is defiantly spewing money.

08-25-2010 , 04:45 PM

#7213

Comstizzle

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,298

hey what's everyone std/100?

mines 95ptbb/100 i think thats pretty high?

08-25-2010 , 04:46 PM

#7214

benjamin barker

Hail to the King

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 6,716

i heard 80 was "normal"

edit: this is fun to play with - http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tool...nce_simulator/

08-25-2010 , 04:46 PM

#7215

joephe

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,298

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comstizzle

hey what's everyone std/100?

mines 95ptbb/100 i think thats pretty high?

How do you check?

08-25-2010 , 04:49 PM

#7216

benjamin barker

Hail to the King

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 6,716

guys i have a strat question for you:

i got pocket jacks and i got 3betted - do i fold or call or raise?

08-25-2010 , 04:49 PM

#7217

Comstizzle

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,298

Quote:

Originally Posted by joephe

actually it's much closer to 50% if you consider the calldown from the flop

08-25-2010 , 04:49 PM

#7218

benjamin barker

Hail to the King

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 6,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by joephe

How do you check?

if you got hem you can add it as a stat, go to the reports and click teh plus sign on the left hand side somewhere

08-25-2010 , 04:49 PM

#7219

gsiciliano

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,942

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc00by

nuts/air ratio is hugely weighted to nuts, even if you are polarised

This. To be polarized is not only being 50% air and 50% nuts. 1% air and 99% nuts is also polarized. What isn´t polarized is 20% air, 25% weak made hands, 30% good made hands and 25% nut-type hands.
Sure, my line on the river is polarized, but very much towards the nuts than air (as it is for most 25NL players)

08-25-2010 , 04:49 PM

#7220

Comstizzle

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,298

BB depends on the villain?

08-25-2010 , 04:50 PM

#7221

TheWizardOfOddz

banned

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by joephe

Actually its about 32.5% he needs to be bluffing to breakeven on a call.

I dont know what read villain had on Gis, in all honesty he probably wasnt thinking too hard about it. As I mentioned above, NL25 regs have such polarised ranges in this spot generally and very few of them are thinking to such a level that when all the draws miss they shouldnt be bluffing.

am i a math fish, is it not 16.9 / 17.95 +16.9= .48

08-25-2010 , 04:52 PM

#7222

joephe

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,298

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comstizzle

actually it's much closer to 50% if you consider the calldown from the flop

Ranges change on every street so considering the call down from the flop is absurd

08-25-2010 , 04:52 PM

#7223

TheWizardOfOddz

banned

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comstizzle

hey what's everyone std/100?

mines 95ptbb/100 i think thats pretty high?

the last time i checked, it was in the mid 100s, i think it was 147.

08-25-2010 , 04:53 PM

#7224

benjamin barker

Hail to the King

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 6,716

if someone bets full pot on the river, you gotta win 1 out of 3 to b/e

the two times you lose you lose one psb on the call. the time you win you get two psbs (the one in the pot already and his new bet)