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Old 11-05-2009, 06:14 PM   #7401
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by ready 2 win View Post
Hypothetical question:

Lets assume you are UTG w/ KK and open for a normal 4x bb raise. Every ones folds to the BTN who pushs for 60bb. Both Blinds fold and it is back to you.

BTN is 15/1 with 1% 3bet over ~700 hands. Do you call?
I did not create a thread b/c I do not want to get flamed for asking this but I thought maybe I could get back some serious answers here.

Last edited by ready 2 win; 11-05-2009 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:14 PM   #7402
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

how're the fiddy tables??? anyone playing right now??? just got done hanging 48' of shelving around the garage and want to get going on some tables... i probably need to clam down a bit and get my head straight first tho!!!
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:16 PM   #7403
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Cause you are not allowed to fold KK pre at the Mircos?
I once saw a tight as a tick UTG 4x open. After he showed 42s, I pretty much discount absolutes as far as stats go......
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:18 PM   #7404
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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how're the fiddy tables??? anyone playing right now??? just got done hanging 48' of shelving around the garage and want to get going on some tables... i probably need to clam down a bit and get my head straight first tho!!!
Just finished a session short stackers are really out in force today, but what else is new I guess. Table are pretty meh right now though.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:20 PM   #7405
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

we'll see what it looks like in a few minutes... have TS running, "Gold! Jerry! GOLD!!!"
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:26 PM   #7406
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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a few years back someone posted a high stakes one in a HU match. I think the pot was 200K some guy had nutflush AK against AQo..it went runner runner str8 flush. The guy had 0.051% equity..
This one is preatty bad as well.

Not a chop though, just standard bad beat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crn09kUcZiw
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:34 PM   #7407
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

EN09 start tables with me
googogog

u guys know this XtuXro.atiX guy ?
he just made one weird ass call starting tables with me
(if he doesnt post here ill post the hand

im playing like ****
i stack the bad regs and spew to this ****ing huge fish on a SH table i keep running into the top of his massive range

Last edited by enty; 11-05-2009 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:40 PM   #7408
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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I once saw a tight as a tick UTG 4x open. After he showed 42s, I pretty much discount absolutes as far as stats go......
Yea, but it is a diffeent thing to open s00ted crap UTG to balancing the range and to overshove bet a UTG raise or?
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:52 PM   #7409
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Fold then. wtf do I care.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:57 PM   #7410
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Fold then. wtf do I care.
lol, I had this reaction this morning with some client. For the past week I was trying to get them to implement some processes and tools for there technology project they have been struggling on. My reasoning was that not only are these proven processes routed in 120 years of engineering, but they are not hard to do, just takes some discipline and they wouldn't have to bring in expensive consultants like me after there 82% failure rate for implementing these projects...
They just kept arguing about "its too hard", and "what if we do all that work and we still fail.."

eventually this morning I said
"**** it, Tom just prepay us our $XM next year then, b/c you are going to need it".
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:03 PM   #7411
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Fold then. wtf do I care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD View Post
lol, I had this reaction this morning with some client. For the past week I was trying to get them to implement some processes and tools for there technology project they have been struggling on. My reasoning was that not only are these proven processes routed in 120 years of engineering, but they are not hard to do, just takes some discipline and they wouldn't have to bring in expensive consultants like me after there 82% failure rate for implementing these projects...
They just kept arguing about "its too hard", and "what if we do all that work and we still fail.."

eventually this morning I said
"**** it, Tom just prepay us our $XM next year then, b/c you are going to need it".
LOL when i had an insurance office and some client would call and threaten to cancel their coverage if "this and that" weren't done, i'd tell my staff to get the cancellation papers ready to sign... then when they sat down i had one of the girls walk it in and tell them, "i have your cancellations right here, now what was it you wanted to discuss?"

you'd be amazed how calmly clients would speak after that. give'em what they want, you want to cancel? fine. cancel.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:03 PM   #7412
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Yeah I am so bad at poker cause I hypothetical consider folding KK vs a 3bet range which seems like KK+ besides the fact he is over shoving.

At least I thought I get some constructive thought but its just this "Call b/c you have KK and this is the micros bla".

But w/e.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:06 PM   #7413
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Yeah I am so bad at poker cause I hypothetical consider folding KK vs a 3bet range which seems like KK+ besides the fact he is over shoving.

At least I thought I get some constructive thought but its just this "Call b/c you have KK and this is the micros bla".

But w/e.
its not that ready. Its the fact that you really, really need a large hand sample to fold KK there. If you had a big enough hand sample that it was only KK+, then you should have notes. Plus its only 60bb, also the table dynamics, come into play, Why would the BTN iso shove UTG? Was UTG a fish. Does UTG call shoves light? Does he have QQ knows UTG calls light but doesn't want Ax,Kx to get priced in...there is a lot of information.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:07 PM   #7414
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

tissue? tampon?

had to look at the thread again and make sure i wasn't in SSNL.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:11 PM   #7415
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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its not that ready. Its the fact that you really, really need a large hand sample to fold KK there. If you had a big enough hand sample that it was only KK+, then you should have notes. Plus its only 60bb, also the table dynamics, come into play, Why would the BTN iso shove UTG? Was UTG a fish. Does UTG call shoves light? Does he have QQ knows UTG calls light but doesn't want Ax,Kx to get priced in...there is a lot of information.
+1 this is cash not tourney. No need to try to make super sick reads with very small sample size for 60bb. Just gotta take your licks. Pokerstove KK+. Then Pokerstove KK+,AK. Heck, even take out half the combos of AK... Now add in dead money....

There is the full answer.

Edit: Well, full answer + homework. LOL.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:12 PM   #7416
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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tissue? tampon?

had to look at the thread again and make sure i wasn't in SSNL.
nah, ready is really asking a question.....he just needs to understand:

1) The KK fold preflop threads are infamous to us micro for life
2) there is a FAQ
3) In reality if you fold or call KK everytime you face this situation, it wouldn't make a difference in your long run WR.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:15 PM   #7417
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by ready 2 win
Hypothetical question:

Lets assume you are UTG w/ KK and open for a normal 4x bb raise. Every ones folds to the BTN who pushs for 60bb. Both Blinds fold and it is back to you.

BTN is 15/1 with 1% 3bet over ~700 hands. Do you call?
Personally, I'd call this. I think the previous posters have a point about stats never being 100% accurate, but also there are three factors in this situation that make AA a bit unlikely.

1) You are UTG and he is on the BTN.
Most players at the micros realize vaguely that position is somewhat important. Thus, many players will give excessive respect to UTG opens.
As a consequence, some UTG raisers will assume this respect is in place, and fold too often to light 3bets in position. Therefore, some players will get frisky against UTG raises, particularly from the BTN.

2) The 3bet is unusually large. Pot-commitingly large. Massive, in fact. This makes me a touch suspicious. Some players will trap with AA. Others will bet normally and try to slip them by you. Still others will will bet slightly larger to bloat the pot. Most, though, will not bet this large for fear or scaring away the action...particularly if they bet rarely (there are exceptions...but this is a great tell/note to get on them). So I think AA is less likely.

3) 1% could be AA. But it could also be KK+. And if your HUD is like mine, it is set for no decimals...so it could really be 1.5% -> QQ+

Also, I have to wonder what you sliding with KK will do to the table dynamic...will you save money in metagame because people fear to push your UTG raises?

Just my 2 cents
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:17 PM   #7418
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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its not that ready. Its the fact that you really, really need a large hand sample to fold KK there. If you had a big enough hand sample that it was only KK+, then you should have notes. Plus its only 60bb, also the table dynamics, come into play, Why would the BTN iso shove UTG? Was UTG a fish. Does UTG call shoves light? Does he have QQ knows UTG calls light but doesn't want Ax,Kx to get priced in...there is a lot of information.
So how large have the sample size to be?

Vilian is TAG who opened in the last few orbits a few hands b/c of a good hand run.

So I put this in Poker Stove and against KK+, AK I have 47%.

Vilian is obv a semit-tight passive half satcking fish w a 0.9 3bet to be exact.

Anyway I think we can leave this topic now.

Last edited by ready 2 win; 11-05-2009 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:22 PM   #7419
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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tissue? tampon?

had to look at the thread again and make sure i wasn't in SSNL.
u didnt start tables with me
i dislike u now
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:24 PM   #7420
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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So how large have the sample size to be?

Vilian is TAG who opened in the last few orbits a few hands b/c of a good hand run.

So I put this in Poker Stove and against KK+, AK I have 47%.
I would say you should have notes on this before you get to that point. But around 2K hands I would start thinking this could be a laydown.

I have folded KK preflop several times, but it was so CLEAR that villain had AA I never thought of posting. That is how sure you should be with the read. Zero doubt.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:26 PM   #7421
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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u didnt start tables with me
i dislike u now
TS and lobby are set up for 7+ players, plus i don't HU well which is why i FR
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:30 PM   #7422
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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I would say you should have notes on this before you get to that point. But around 2K hands I would start thinking this could be a laydown.

I have folded KK preflop several times, but it was so CLEAR that villain had AA I never thought of posting. That is how sure you should be with the read. Zero doubt.

The simply back round was in this hand I had 99 which is at least a okay fold I hope. And I just started wondering if I could do the call there even w/ KK b/c of his stats.

So I was just corious and reality i would call this most of the times, too. Even when I think folding KK in such spots can not be a hughe leak.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:43 PM   #7423
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Full Tilt Poker $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $67.85
BB: $10.00
UTG: $50.00
UTG+1: $54.45
UTG+2: $50.00
MP1: $67.40
MP2: $10.00
Hero (CO): $50.00
BTN: $39.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with A K
5 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN raises to $4.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($9.75) 8 A J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.00, Hero raises to $12.50, BTN raises to $33, Hero raises to $45.50, BTN tanks.... and tanks.... times down and calls $2 all in

Turn: ($79.75) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($79.75) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

Spoiler:


NSFWTS
Spoiler:
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:46 PM   #7424
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by EN09 View Post
Full Tilt Poker $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $67.85
BB: $10.00
UTG: $50.00
UTG+1: $54.45
UTG+2: $50.00
MP1: $67.40
MP2: $10.00
Hero (CO): $50.00
BTN: $39.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with A K
5 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN raises to $4.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($9.75) 8 A J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.00, Hero raises to $12.50, BTN raises to $33, Hero raises to $45.50, BTN tanks.... and tanks.... times down and calls $2 all in

Turn: ($79.75) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($79.75) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Spoiler:
Reading your HH, I was sure this was going to happen.

Spoiler:
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:55 PM   #7425
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Re: KK, even if you are wrong and hit AA, don't forget that it's not a death sentence. You're going to win 20% of the time. You have to toss that in with the probability that you've got him dominated with Qs or AK. I just don't fold KK preflop against one person. If I hit aces, I hit aces. I take the cooler and move on.
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