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Old 11-02-2009, 11:45 AM   #7126
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by KurtSF View Post
To be honest, it was so convoluted that I didn't understand it, and so just didn't even sign up.
something to do with nuns, right? that got me too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by springsteen87 View Post
Do you have rakeback? If so, do you understand that purchasing things from the stores is a losing prop (your rakeback is calculated on a net of FTP point redemption basis AFAIK)
agreed... imo, i'd rather hit wally-world for a backpack/ipod/monitor than to take the hit on RB.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:19 PM   #7127
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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I just stumbled here by accident, but I'll give you 1 piece of advice. Sure, playing tight is easy money at the micros. But if you play looser you will most likely learn the game a lot faster and get better faster, which in the end is going to be way more profitable. When you force yourself to get into marginal spots over and over again, you'll learn from the mistakes you make and because of that you'll get better faster.
This.

I skipped the nit phase of being a poker player. The results were pretty lackluster for a while there, but it does get you more experience faster so I would recommend it.

Watch Split's Super Lag video on Stox if you have a membership. That will give you a massive jump start if you pay attention and absorb it.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:30 PM   #7128
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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This.

I skipped the nit phase of being a poker player. The results were pretty lackluster for a while there, but it does get you more experience faster so I would recommend it.

Watch Split's Super Lag video on Stox if you have a membership. That will give you a massive jump start if you pay attention and absorb it.
Downloaded it last night. Can't wait to watch it along with his back to basics stuff.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:34 PM   #7129
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Last I checked, you lose $5 of MGR ($1.35 of actual RB) for every 1000 FTPs spent.
The 8GB iPod Touch is 45000 FTPs, $225 MGR which is $60.75 of RB. (Unless you're UK/Euro, wherein it's 54000 FTPs which is $72.90 in rakeback.)

I've no idea how prices compare to retail in the states, but it's about a third of the price that the iPod is available for here in the UK.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:40 PM   #7130
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

For rakebackpros, you lose half a cent of revenue per FTP spent. 27% of that is your actual loss. So you lose 0.135 pennies for each FTP you spend. The minicooper is 6 million FTP. That's $8100. Seems worth it to me.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:43 PM   #7131
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by springsteen87 View Post
Do you have rakeback? If so, do you understand that purchasing things from the stores is a losing prop (your rakeback is calculated on a net of FTP point redemption basis AFAIK)
Not necessarily. Its just not as good a deal as it appears.

I just bought a TV that I'm very happy with. Here's the breakdown of how the FT points and rakeback worked out.

The item was 195000 points in the store. FTP values the points at 1/2 cent each, making the item $975. It retailed for around $800, and figuring they have to pay shipping too, its just a small markup. I searched around and the best deal available was $750 from Amazon with free shipping.

The $975 hit my MGR, which reduces my rakeback $975 * 27% = $263.25.

So I got a $750 TV for $264. Definitely better than Wally World, even if its not actually "free" like they make out.

Different items in the store are marked up various amounts. From reading the FTP store items thread in the zoo I found that the item I bought is one of the better deals in the entire store. Apparently the some of the GPS items in the store are marked up so much that you can buy them for the same $ as the rakeback hit and save nothing.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:46 PM   #7132
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

TY for correcting me guys, had been wondering about it myself.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:48 PM   #7133
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Downloaded it last night. Can't wait to watch it along with his back to basics stuff.
Yeah, in my simplified view of lol-red-line-aments there are two approaches. The imfromsweeden and Chicago Joey approach of pretty much only winning without showdown. That would be hyper lag and super aggressive.

Then there is the small ball approach, where you are playing pretty loose, stealing small pots, and hoping to at least break even in non show down pots, but that really isn't where your money is coming from. The money is still coming from showdown. But you get the following bonuses:

1. Running fish stats: Gets you action from HUD-bots, and there are a ton of hudbots at lower levels. You basically never have a very defined range.
2. Tons of changes to flop strange monsters in position. <- $$$$

I was trying to play a small ball game for a while, but realized I was overcommiting and risking too much money. Think about risk vs reward. Why would you risk most of your stack to win a tiny pot? Think about bluffing and stealing in terms of lots of little pots. When you are building a big pot, you better either have the goods or have tons of equity to reach the goods by showdown. Try to eliminate crazy moves where you risk a lot of money in relation to the pot with very little equity.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:56 PM   #7134
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

I love the running fish stats part of it. People with HUDs might have me at like 30 VPIP, but not realize that it's probably at like 70 from the button. They'll comment on how loose I am and how they got unlucky on how they happened to run into Ks when I raise UTG+!
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:09 PM   #7135
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

With regards to the FTPs and purchasing stuff from the store, remember if for whatever crazy reason you dont have rakeback, all the items you purchase are actually free
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:19 PM   #7136
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by mpethybridge View Post
<------------Sad he missed the KQs from UTG debate.

<------------Glad he wasn't needed, though--excellent work, Brock.
Yeah, I'm glad my question served some purpose.

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Old 11-02-2009, 02:27 PM   #7137
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by pele02 View Post
Your WTSD is to high imo: Look at the hands you are calling a river bet/raise with and see if you could have played it differently. Are you going for pot control to much? What is your AF on every street?
I try not to play big pots with not so good hands, not sure I succeed.

Flop agg% = 37.2
Turn agg% = 23.5
River agg% = 25.6

Quote:
Flop cbet is not optimal, but that can be b/c it's 5NL and people just aren't folding as much as at 25 or 50 i.e

Think you have a leak in the BB. I don't think you need to raise/3bet that much b/c bad people will still pay you off if you hit. People usually don't call 3bets that light even if it's 5NL. Try to only raise regs with premiums and 65s-ish hands and call with hands like QJ.
Balancing my range, is that what you mean?

Quote:
You also seem to CC quite a bit in CO and BTN
Yeah, I did notice that especially in the CO. Reason is that I sometimes don't feel like raising with 2+ limpers in front of me so I call, typically with KJo for example - should I fold?

Quote:
And it's a really small sample size, so it could very well be just variance.

Sign up for next months sweat sessions imo.
Yup, I have a sweater (thanks Jon!) and looking at getting more help.

Thanks for the comments!
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:29 PM   #7138
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Hey everyone, sort of an online-newbie question... I'm on fulltilt with no rakeback. My question is, what kind of $$ am I missing out on? Is the amount earned in rakeback comparable to clearing a bonus at .06 per FTP (or whatever)? Does the rakeback-earned correlate in a similar way to FTP earned?

Thanks!
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:29 PM   #7139
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

while i agree with all the rakeback calculations.
arent u guys forgetting that the ftp have value by themselves ?
so a $750 tv bought with ftp is not really $264 cus the ftp u spent are now gone.
so its 264+whatever the ftps u spent were worth

i heard that if u dont want the RB hit u can best enter donkaments with ur ftp and get no hit at all.
beat: u have to play donkaments
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:40 PM   #7140
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by lucky77 View Post
Hey everyone, sort of an online-newbie question... I'm on fulltilt with no rakeback. My question is, what kind of $$ am I missing out on? Is the amount earned in rakeback comparable to clearing a bonus at .06 per FTP (or whatever)? Does the rakeback-earned correlate in a similar way to FTP earned?

Thanks!
HEM tells you the amount of rake you lose from each session. Multiply that by 0.27 to see how much you could be making.
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:41 PM   #7141
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by enty View Post
while i agree with all the rakeback calculations.
arent u guys forgetting that the ftp have value by themselves ?
so a $750 tv bought with ftp is not really $264 cus the ftp u spent are now gone.
so its 264+whatever the ftps u spent were worth

i heard that if u dont want the RB hit u can best enter donkaments with ur ftp and get no hit at all.
beat: u have to play donkaments
You don't take the hit if you spend your FTP on donkaments? Are you sure about this?
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:50 PM   #7142
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

lucky77, there can only be one answer to your question....and it is in the form of a question.

Why would you not want rakeback?

(In the micros, rb seems to be a necessity. You should look to see if you can apply at rakebackpros.)
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:50 PM   #7143
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky77 View Post
Hey everyone, sort of an online-newbie question... I'm on fulltilt with no rakeback. My question is, what kind of $$ am I missing out on? Is the amount earned in rakeback comparable to clearing a bonus at .06 per FTP (or whatever)? Does the rakeback-earned correlate in a similar way to FTP earned?

Thanks!
If you want to ballpark your rakeback, look at your IronMan status update page and take your ironman points for the day and multiply by 1/40.

IIRC this is like ~25% low depending on game and style and etc, but it'll get you in the ballpark to know what you're missing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by enty View Post
while i agree with all the rakeback calculations.
arent u guys forgetting that the ftp have value by themselves ?
so a $750 tv bought with ftp is not really $264 cus the ftp u spent are now gone.
so its 264+whatever the ftps u spent were worth

i heard that if u dont want the RB hit u can best enter donkaments with ur ftp and get no hit at all.
beat: u have to play donkaments
OK, so if the going rate to sell your points is $3.5/1000 that's .35 cents each, and they hit rakeback at .135 cents each, so that cash value of the points is .215 ($0.00215)

So back to my TV, I lost $264 in rakeback and lost the cash equivlaent of $419.25 in points, for a total cash outlay plus opportunity cost of $683. Interesting way to look at it. I never used points for ANYTHING EVER so I certainly wasn't including an opportunity cost.
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:57 PM   #7144
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by KurtSF View Post
If you want to ballpark your rakeback, look at your IronMan status update page and take your ironman points for the day and multiply by 1/40.

IIRC this is like ~25% low depending on game and style and etc, but it'll get you in the ballpark to know what you're missing.




OK, so if the going rate to sell your points is $3.5/1000 that's .35 cents each, and they hit rakeback at .135 cents each, so that cash value of the points is .215 ($0.00215)

So back to my TV, I lost $264 in rakeback and lost the cash equivlaent of $419.25 in points, for a total cash outlay plus opportunity cost of $683. Interesting way to look at it. I never used points for ANYTHING EVER so I certainly wasn't including an opportunity cost.

When you sell your points you still take the rakeback hit. You are double counting the rakeback hit in your example.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:00 PM   #7145
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

So MGR hits don't carry over for a period of time, so wouldn't it be good just to take all your rakeback hits in one month, buying stuff, clearing bonuses, etc. and then start fresh the next month.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:08 PM   #7146
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by DDAWD View Post
HEM HAS A FILTER YOU CAN LOAD so you SEE the amount of rake you SHOULD BE PAID for each session. NO NEED TO multiply by 0.27 to see how much you could be making.
FYP
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:08 PM   #7147
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Opportunity costs...... I guess if you ONLY spend ftp points on tournament entrys. Am I missing something? Are there other ways to use points that don't hit RB?

Otherwise, you HAVE to hit RB with anything....so there can not be a missed opportunity cost.

and I play loldonkaments for giggles only.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:10 PM   #7148
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by SammyG-SD View Post
When you sell your points you still take the rakeback hit. You are double counting the rakeback hit in your example.
Uh, I don't think so.

I got: 1 TV valued at $750
I lost: $264 in rakeback and 195000 points


Points can be sold at $3.5/1000, so the opportunity I am passing up is +$682 cash and -$264 rackback, for a total opportunity cost of $419. So:

I got: 1 TV valued at $750
I lost: $264 in rakeback and the opportunity to make $419
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:11 PM   #7149
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

He could have sold his 195000 points for $682.5 (@$3.5/1000).
Then, he'd have taken a hit of $263.35 in rakeback.
Leaving a profit of $419.25.
So his $750 TV cost $419.25.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:12 PM   #7150
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by SammyG-SD View Post
So MGR hits don't carry over for a period of time, so wouldn't it be good just to take all your rakeback hits in one month, buying stuff, clearing bonuses, etc. and then start fresh the next month.
They carry over indefinitely.

To buy things from the store in true winning fashion, cash out your roll and never play at FTP again, then blow all your points at the store.
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