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Old 09-29-2009, 09:56 AM   #5401
devin mac
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by McAvoy View Post
I've got a question for you guys. At FT poker, I notice there are at least twice as many SSers as there was at PS. However I found at PS that the SSers actually knew SS strategy.

I find at FT that they aren't true SSers, aka playing SS strategy, they are just morans buying in short. aka 90% of the SSers on Stars are playing a 10/8 with a 3b shove %. Whereas at last 50% of the SSrs at FT are trying to play regular poker buying in short.

It still screws up the game to a degree but not as bad as you guys make it out to be. That being said, I still table select like crazy.
most of the NL50 shortstack a-holes i've been seeing are single digit VPIP with nearly identical pfr%. i keep forgetting to look at 3b shove %, but they seem to be following roughly "the strategy"

it's indeed getting tougher and tougher to sit tables without 3 or 4 of these guys. i've been moving to the deeps, but my winrate is historically a lot better on the regular tables, so it annoys me that i need to go to deepstack tables to avoid these idiots. once i hit my next bankroll goal, i'm moving half of it to PStars and splitting my tables up between the sites, until FTP gets their act together on this issue.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:02 AM   #5402
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Can someone ship me 5 bucks on FT for 5 on stars??

I WILL SEND FIRST!

Needs to be a reputable poster
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:17 AM   #5403
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

^^^^^^^^

Lots of luck. Your 2+2 post history won't sit too well as you try to mooch off the micro players. BBV, NVG posts do not trust instill.

But GL
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:17 AM   #5404
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by devin mac View Post
most of the NL50 shortstack a-holes i've been seeing are single digit VPIP with nearly identical pfr%. i keep forgetting to look at 3b shove %, but they seem to be following roughly "the strategy"

it's indeed getting tougher and tougher to sit tables without 3 or 4 of these guys. i've been moving to the deeps, but my winrate is historically a lot better on the regular tables, so it annoys me that i need to go to deepstack tables to avoid these idiots. once i hit my next bankroll goal, i'm moving half of it to PStars and splitting my tables up between the sites, until FTP gets their act together on this issue.
I've noticed there are a lot of terrible short stackers who aren't very well disciplined. They still run 7/7 but 3bet shove ATos and the likes
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:22 AM   #5405
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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I've noticed there are a lot of terrible short stackers who aren't very well disciplined. They still run 7/7 but 3bet shove ATos and the likes
I've seen this, too. I see a lot of them whose stack-off range is 88+, making them LOL easy to beat. These guys are playing 20bb stacks, making a shove with TT+ or AQ+ profitable. Even if you're flipping, you are still +EV becuase of dead money.

It's the 3/3's I avoid.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:26 AM   #5406
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

no matter how much we might hate them... its still part of the game that we gotta live with
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:28 AM   #5407
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by WrpMission View Post
I've noticed there are a lot of terrible short stackers who aren't very well disciplined. They still run 7/7 but 3bet shove ATos and the likes
right, but i still don't want to be calling 20bb shoves when i'm speculating 56s from middle position or semi-stealing with it from the CO... maybe i'm a super nit...
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:33 AM   #5408
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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right, but i still don't want to be calling 20bb shoves when i'm speculating 56s from middle position or semi-stealing with it from the CO... maybe i'm a super nit...
they fold enough where you can be raising from the CO very profitably with almost your entire range. I have noted a few short stackers who did start adjusting to this and started 3betting light, which of course was even more profitable to me since I started opening up my 4 betting range which cripples them completely.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:34 AM   #5409
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by kb coolman View Post
I've seen this, too. I see a lot of them whose stack-off range is 88+, making them LOL easy to beat. These guys are playing 20bb stacks, making a shove with TT+ or AQ+ profitable. Even if you're flipping, you are still +EV becuase of dead money.

It's the 3/3's I avoid.
It's pretty easy to pick out the complete nits from the terrible short stackers based on stats and one showdown with a terrible hand.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:36 AM   #5410
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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I've seen this, too. I see a lot of them whose stack-off range is 88+, making them LOL easy to beat.
just to be clear, i'm sure most of us in the thread are MAKING money on these high single digit shovebots, but they still annoy the hell out of me. sure, i can almost guarantee i take their blinds every time, and as long as they're not 3bet shoving my steals more than every 2 - 3 orbits i'm profitable against them, but when you know their ONLY steal defense is a 20bb shove? never get a chance to really play for their stacks unless you feel like flipping or just happen to get lucky with a big PP at the same time they hit their AJ, AQ, AK, 88+.

i'm not really playing to sit around and collect blinds every orbit or two (though, my winrate tells me i might be more profitable if i did... )
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:37 AM   #5411
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by WrpMission View Post
they fold enough where you can be raising from the CO very profitably with almost your entire range. I have noted a few short stackers who did start adjusting to this and started 3betting light, which of course was even more profitable to me since I started opening up my 4 betting range which cripples them completely.
you don't have a 4bet range if every 3bet is a shove...
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:04 AM   #5412
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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you don't have a 4bet range if every 3bet is a shove...
touche, brb getting more coffee
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:17 AM   #5413
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by WrpMission View Post
I've noticed there are a lot of terrible short stackers who aren't very well disciplined. They still run 7/7 but 3bet shove ATos and the likes
If they are running 7/7 and trying to follow a hand chart then 3b shoving ATo might show a lack of discipline but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad play...
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:22 AM   #5414
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

A shorty or nit can't play unless there is an open seat.

Once we get rid of shorties then can we move to get rid of nits? lol
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:22 AM   #5415
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by HappyPixel View Post
If they are running 7/7 and trying to follow a hand chart then 3b shoving ATo might show a lack of discipline but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad play...
Do you guys find that short stackers are all fold or shove? At 10NL, I see plenty of shorties who play short, but try and play actual poker with it. Like they will play with SPP and SCs.

It's not as fun or profitable, but man, is it easy.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:35 AM   #5416
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by DDAWD View Post
Do you guys find that short stackers are all fold or shove? At 10NL, I see plenty of shorties who play short, but try and play actual poker with it. Like they will play with SPP and SCs.

It's not as fun or profitable, but man, is it easy.
well there is a big difference between the SS strategy and just plain terrible players who only sit down with the minimum.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:36 AM   #5417
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by Smoking Dough View Post
no matter how much we might hate them... its still part of the game that we gotta live with
There is movement underway that will change this.

The real funny part after FTP split to S20-100 and 50-100 tables and all us "complainers" move to the 50-100.......

If the fish continue to buy onto the S20-100 tables, what's any self-respecting full to do? LOL, but I have a pretty good idea.


(******************************************)


Red Pro Sonny W posted in the FTP Answers 2/22 thread:

There is more than one kind of shortstacker, and the "talented" kind (I use this word lightly) really can't be at all profitable until midstakes. Most SSNL players think that fish sitting with shortstacks are what people refer to as shortstackers, but pro shortstacks exist, and their strategy is tough to beat. It requires doing a lot of EV calcs with pokerstove at a minimum (this is the dark secret to shortstacking btw). I too love sitting with shortstacked fish.

Anyway, I can play ok against them, because I put in the time, but I would highly prefer to never ever do it again. I would be very appreciative if Full Tilt finds a solution that benefits everyone


I play at these midstakes and will 2nd his opinions and experiences. I also can adjust and beat the shorts. I just PREFER to play without......and FTP can make this happen while leveling the playing field that the inherent edge affords the short in today's online game.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:44 AM   #5418
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

the 50NL regs ammuse me...don't you realize I am a donkey callings station and will call your river bluff with 4th pair?
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:50 AM   #5419
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

I'm sure this has been posted ITT before, but with all the recent complaining on the shorties (I hate them, too), CMARs Pooh-bah on crushing short stacks is a good read:

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12157664

For now, we have to live with them. Might as well play as +EV as possible.

And FWIW, I've really opened up my 3b/4b shoving range pre with these guys. It seems to be working...
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:55 AM   #5420
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
^^^^^^^^

Lots of luck. Your 2+2 post history won't sit too well as you try to mooch off the micro players. BBV, NVG posts do not trust instill.

But GL
I just googled "Mooch"


1. To obtain or try to obtain by begging; cadge. See Synonyms at cadge.
2. To steal; filch.
v.intr.
1. To get or try to get something free of charge; sponge: lived by mooching off friends.
2. To wander about aimlessly.
3. To skulk around; sneak.
n.
1. One who begs or cadges; a sponge.
2. A dupe, as in a confidence game.

Probably not the best word to use to be honest.

Oh and if somebody is offering to send first, they are either legit or entirely incapable of scamming somebody else.

Thanks anyway
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:01 PM   #5421
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Oh and if somebody is offering to send first, they are either legit or entirely incapable of scamming somebody else.
This is not true. Rider got scammed out of $9K on FTP because he thought this was the case.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:01 PM   #5422
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

"I'll send first" is NOT a cure-all.

GL anyway.

BTW, these are my fish, my charges. I am King. Buzz Off.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:03 PM   #5423
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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This is not true. Rider got scammed out of $9K on FTP because he thought this was the case.
How did this happen? Is there a thread somewhere? I would certainly like to check it out.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:05 PM   #5424
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by kb coolman View Post
I've seen this, too. I see a lot of them whose stack-off range is 88+, making them LOL easy to beat. These guys are playing 20bb stacks, making a shove with TT+ or AQ+ profitable. Even if you're flipping, you are still +EV becuase of dead money.

It's the 3/3's I avoid.
I like your location.

....just sayin'
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:07 PM   #5425
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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How did this happen? Is there a thread somewhere? I would certainly like to check it out.
I REALLY have a funny feeling about this guy..... like he wants to know HOW to scam for bigger $$$$$$,,, or sumthang?

'Course, I've been known to be wrong before. Doesn't happen often tho....
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