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Old 07-21-2009, 04:39 PM   #3176
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

so i took a break from cash and loaded up 8 mtt's this afternoon, lol micro mtt's i forgot how bad the players r, lol didnt make it to a break in 6 of them.... lol gonna start drinking me thinks
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:53 PM   #3177
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD View Post
so who here is xxxMyTearsxxxx? seems like he/she had all the answers versus me today.
I'm guessing this is him?
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:59 PM   #3178
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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probably, I think I handed him $150 on a silver platter today.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:06 PM   #3179
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

I've never really felt the need to practive good table selection before.

The table scanner in HEM doesn't appear to work and it doesn't look like it's on general release yet. I have the latest beta too.....

I have telescope though, any tips?
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:18 PM   #3180
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

crapauds... 60/16 deep fish... die plz with your TurnLuck..

[Edit] Again 100bb against him turning Trip Deuces with Q2s. [x] Our French Hero

Last edited by Gerv; 07-21-2009 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:34 PM   #3181
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

guys why is stars thread above our awesome thread, unacceptable

Last edited by ra]\\[dom; 07-21-2009 at 08:36 PM. Reason: not anymore, bump sucessful
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:51 PM   #3182
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

because there are more stars regs and they post alot more than we do?
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:37 PM   #3183
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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because there are more stars regs and they b*tch at each other alot more than we do?
fyp
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:45 PM   #3184
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Reading the stars regs thread is why I don't play on stars. Also, a quick HH for you guys. I always suck in these spots and never know the best line to take. villain is 29/6/2.0 over 90 hands.


Full Tilt $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $10.22
UTG+1: $3.85
UTG+2: $5.00
MP1: $6.80
Hero (MP2): $25.35
CO: $25.00
BTN: $30.44
SB: $28.06
BB: $45.91

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP2 with J 9
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.85, CO calls $0.85, 3 folds

Flop: ($2.05) K J 2 (2 players)
Hero ?? c/f, c/c, b/f?


Also whats the plan on the turn? A heart is a c/f yea?
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:23 PM   #3185
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

That's just a normal cBet $1.5/Fold spot right?

Unknown (90 hands) --> standard line
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:33 PM   #3186
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

It is pretty much impossible for me to have run any worse today.

Usually my suck is at least paired with me winning some hands to offset it, today i just lost and lost and lost and lost some more.

If they could get there, they did.

Favorite hands

T high flop, I flop set of 2s. He has K2 and we get all in. Runner Runner K for him to boat.

Guy raises, gets a caller, I 3 bet, he 4 bets, 3 to flop.
AKx and i have AK. I bet he thinks, uses time bank and finally pushes at last second. He has A8 clubs (one club on flop) runner runner clubs)

And other normal every day beats as well.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:13 PM   #3187
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

What are we betting the flop for if we bet? Can we get better hands to fold, maybe AJ, JT or QJ. Value? If so what are we getting value from? Draws, small pockets that decide to call one off. Protection?(How much do we invest to protect middle pair meh kicker no draws?) Looking forward to the turn and riverAre we ever going to be comfortable giving up initiative? Not betting the turn will feel like letting draws off the hook and also makes us bluffable, but betting here also feels like spew in to what could very well be top pair or better. What do you do on a safe river after he's called two streets? Would be pretty hard to check and call a decent bet. So we triple barrel watch draws fold?

Probably cbet cause why the hell else did I raise pre-flop, but only to like 1.25 cause its enough to keep us from being bluffed. Not sure I carry this much further and just give him credit. I'm really not committed here and I think a double barrel just leads us to a triple barrel on the river on a safe card.

Maybe I'm over analyzing this.

Heart or an A is a check/fold on the turn.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:28 PM   #3188
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by CaptVimes View Post
What are we betting the flop for if we bet? Can we get better hands to fold, maybe AJ, JT or QJ. Value? If so what are we getting value from? Draws, small pockets that decide to call one off. Protection?(How much do we invest to protect middle pair meh kicker no draws?) Looking forward to the turn and riverAre we ever going to be comfortable giving up initiative? Not betting the turn will feel like letting draws off the hook and also makes us bluffable, but betting here also feels like spew in to what could very well be top pair or better. What do you do on a safe river after he's called two streets? Would be pretty hard to check and call a decent bet. So we triple barrel watch draws fold?

Probably cbet cause why the hell else did I raise pre-flop, but only to like 1.25 cause its enough to keep us from being bluffed. Not sure I carry this much further and just give him credit. I'm really not committed here and I think a double barrel just leads us to a triple barrel on the river on a safe card.

Maybe I'm over analyzing this.

Heart or an A is a check/fold on the turn.
agree with the last point.

assuming the flush or A never hits, i think this is a good board to plan to bet the flop and the turn and then check/call the river. This is actually a sub-optimal villain, because he is LP preflop (but ok aggro post) and has some kings in his cold calling range, but the board is pretty good for it, so, on balance i would seriously consider this line. If i don't take this line I basically bet the flop to collect dead money and then give up unimproved. I would actually lean toward giving up against a loose passive, as, if he bets when checked to, he has it a lot more often than an aggro player, and if he checks behind he has either a draw or a crappy king and I am going to be able to get it to showdown a lot of the time.

You're bluff catching on the river if you bet the flop and turn, but most of his kings are going to want to check behind on the river, so bluffs will make up a pretty high percentage of a lot of villains' range to bluff this river.

The trickiest spot to be in in this situation is bet flop, turn checks through, flush does not complete and you check the river and he bets.
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:56 AM   #3189
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddie View Post
Flop: ($2.05) K J 2 (2 players)
Hero ?? c/f, c/c, b/f?

Also whats the plan on the turn? A heart is a c/f yea?
Given how loose villain is, I like betting flop $1.25 and 1/2 pot on a non- turn, and I'm probably giving up on those cards. You sometimes fold out better hands with your turn bet (QJ JT, maybe AJ) and he has enough draws in his range that there is value on the turn. Most of his weak Ks are going to want SD on the river so I'm okay c/f'ing most bets there.

Last edited by 1a2a3a; 07-22-2009 at 01:03 AM. Reason: misread board, def. betting an A turn and probably bigger
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:38 AM   #3190
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

mpethy, vimes, why are we afraid of an A on the turn? QT sure, but really you think he floats flop with non- Ax? If we're still bet/folding all the way what difference does it make?
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:18 AM   #3191
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

why is the ace a fold? I think its a good barrel card since draws might still call and weak kings might fold.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:13 AM   #3192
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

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Originally Posted by Joopjan View Post
why is the ace a fold? I think its a good barrel card since draws might still call and weak kings might fold.
Was thinking the same thing.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:14 AM   #3193
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

^ also might make it more likely we get to SD/less likely he bluffs at us when we check the river.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:20 AM   #3194
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptVimes View Post
What are we betting the flop for if we bet? Can we get better hands to fold, maybe AJ, JT or QJ. Value? If so what are we getting value from? Draws, small pockets that decide to call one off. Protection?(How much do we invest to protect middle pair meh kicker no draws?) Looking forward to the turn and riverAre we ever going to be comfortable giving up initiative? Not betting the turn will feel like letting draws off the hook and also makes us bluffable, but betting here also feels like spew in to what could very well be top pair or better. What do you do on a safe river after he's called two streets? Would be pretty hard to check and call a decent bet. So we triple barrel watch draws fold?

Probably cbet cause why the hell else did I raise pre-flop, but only to like 1.25 cause its enough to keep us from being bluffed. Not sure I carry this much further and just give him credit. I'm really not committed here and I think a double barrel just leads us to a triple barrel on the river on a safe card.

Maybe I'm over analyzing this.

Heart or an A is a check/fold on the turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge View Post
agree with the last point.

assuming the flush or A never hits, i think this is a good board to plan to bet the flop and the turn and then check/call the river. This is actually a sub-optimal villain, because he is LP preflop (but ok aggro post) and has some kings in his cold calling range, but the board is pretty good for it, so, on balance i would seriously consider this line. If i don't take this line I basically bet the flop to collect dead money and then give up unimproved. I would actually lean toward giving up against a loose passive, as, if he bets when checked to, he has it a lot more often than an aggro player, and if he checks behind he has either a draw or a crappy king and I am going to be able to get it to showdown a lot of the time.

You're bluff catching on the river if you bet the flop and turn, but most of his kings are going to want to check behind on the river, so bluffs will make up a pretty high percentage of a lot of villains' range to bluff this river.

The trickiest spot to be in in this situation is bet flop, turn checks through, flush does not complete and you check the river and he bets.


Cheers for the in-depth reply guys, wasn't expecting all this effort. I don't think AJ,QJ or JT will fold the flop, people love to peel with any bit of the flop I've noticed at FT, I'd have to fire a barrell on the turn for that. The dilemma for me is whether c-betting flop and turn is more +ev then just c/f flop? I think cbetting flop then c/f non scary turns is pretty spewy. Not only that but if we fire flop and turn as Mpethy says we'll have to c/c a non heart river most likely. Obv c/f flop is pretty nitty but I think it highlights that it should be a fold pre-flop until I have reads on how players on my left play.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 1a2a3a View Post
Given how loose villain is, I like betting flop $1.25 and 1/2 pot on a non- turn, and I'm probably giving up on those cards. You sometimes fold out better hands with your turn bet (QJ JT, maybe AJ) and he has enough draws in his range that there is value on the turn. Most of his weak Ks are going to want SD on the river so I'm okay c/f'ing most bets there.
If no heart hits by the river after we've bet flop and turn we should call the river because he's range is basically missed draws or some two pair he hit on the turn or river. On the flop I'd expect a set of 2's to raise and KJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joopjan View Post
why is the ace a fold? I think its a good barrel card since draws might still call and weak kings might fold.

I presume it's because his draws will be weighted to Ax?
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:16 AM   #3195
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

I need to ask, is this standard aginst a tight shortstacker??


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: $16.75
MP1: $50.00
MP2: $14.35
CO: $18.00
BTN: $29.40
SB: $51.25
Hero (BB): $50.75
UTG: $13.10

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with J Q
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.25) J T 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1, MP2 calls $1

Turn: ($3.25) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, MP2 raises to $4, Hero folds
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:32 AM   #3196
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

raise pre
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:15 AM   #3197
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1a2a3a View Post
mpethy, vimes, why are we afraid of an A on the turn? QT sure, but really you think he floats flop with non- Ax? If we're still bet/folding all the way what difference does it make?
Well, I wouldn't be bet/folding the whole way if an ace or a heart comes, I'll be check/folding the turn and check/calling or folding the river. Once one of those cards falls, this hand goes into the category of "there are too many ways he can be ahead of us."

In my opinion, we don't like an ace on the turn because he has a lot of ragged suited aces in his cold calling range. The AhXh hands definitely call us on the flop. All AJ combos are in his preflop range, and that hand is definitely peeling. QT combos are in his range and an ace would hit them. Probably we can assume that some small fraction of his Ax combos float us on a call/bluff.

All of that combines to make the ace a pretty ****ty card for us. If we bet it, we are turning our hand into a bluff, and i think we have more showdown value than bluff value on a suited and straighted board against a loose passive who calls preflop with speculative hands a lot. The hands that would fold to a bet when the ace comes are mostly hands that are behind us; the only hands we can hope to fold out are his kings, and we won't be able to fold all of those. Conversely, the hands that beat us are all the hands that are going to bet the ace if we check. We'll get bluffed sometimes, too, but getting bluffed off a 10bb pot holding middle pair is a trivial concern. especially with a villain whose aggression factor is only 2.0--he's not bluffing us all that often.

Actually, the comment I like best in this discussion is the OP coming back in and saying that this is a fold preflop until we have a read.

But 1a's post raises an interesting point; it may be worth considering treating the Ah as a good card for us. I'm not sure, because it completes the flush. I'm gonna think about this for a while, which really makes me wish I had the ambition to get good at combinatorics.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:39 AM   #3198
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfromsweden View Post
I need to ask, is this standard aginst a tight shortstacker??


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: $16.75
MP1: $50.00
MP2: $14.35
CO: $18.00
BTN: $29.40
SB: $51.25
Hero (BB): $50.75
UTG: $13.10

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with J Q
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.25) J T 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1, MP2 calls $1

Turn: ($3.25) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, MP2 raises to $4, Hero folds
Mmmm. On the flop, yes :-)
On the turn, unless he's delaying his flop cbet after hitting his set to trap you, it's a weird line. How does that 6 improve V's hand? Is V calling with 66 on a JT7 flop? Does he play any hand that completes a second pair with a 6? If he's got 89 he hit on the flop...

Very weird.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:54 AM   #3199
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

^^^^^^^^^

yeah, no way i could have folded there, even though I know the donkey shortstacker is as likely to have AA tere as he is to have any other hand.

I don't think I'd spazz and ship under normal circumstances, but I am definitely calling and then check/calling almost any bet (might find a fold against a shove, but probably not).

edit: raise preflop is correct, too.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:40 AM   #3200
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Re: ***Official 2009 Micro Stakes FR Full Tilt Regulars Thread***

Wow, I was 100% that was a fold. What else does he min-raise turn with? J9?????
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