OESFD on the flop, is this standard play? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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OESFD on the flop, is this standard play?

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07-20-2013 , 11:49 AM

SackofNuts

grinder

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 627

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 7)
SB: 102.52 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 24.44, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 46)
BB: 108.6 BB (VPIP: 9.52, PFR: 9.52, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 21)
UTG: 155.68 BB (VPIP: 18.47, PFR: 14.01, 3Bet Preflop: 3.70, Hands: 159)
Hero (MP): 110 BB
CO: 131.76 BB (VPIP: 52.38, PFR: 4.76, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 21)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.4 BB, 3 players) 8

BB checks, Hero bets 8.4 BB, fold, BB raises to 42 BB, Hero raises to 107 BB and is all-in, BB calls 63.6 BB and is all-in

Should I have bet slightly smaller on the flop? Other than that did I do anything wrong? Thanks in advance for your advice

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07-20-2013 , 11:52 AM

gorillachips

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 130

WP.

make a note on what BB's oversized raise is.

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07-20-2013 , 12:12 PM

oNste

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2,156

NH wp

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07-20-2013 , 12:19 PM

Chigmeister

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,069

Raising J9s preflop is a lil bit loose but playing aggressively like this in flops is the right way to do it!

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07-20-2013 , 12:20 PM

samcx

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,247

It's standard post.

Is this a standard open for you guys pre though, taking into account rest of the table etc?

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07-20-2013 , 12:42 PM

gorillachips

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 130

J9s is either going to be the top of your folding range or bottom of your calling range pre from MP

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07-20-2013 , 12:45 PM

Drachaon

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 638

Looks totally standard to me.

Open folding J9s from MP would be pretty nitty unless you've got a crazy dynamic with a good player in CO or BTN.

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07-20-2013 , 12:48 PM

gorillachips

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachaon

Looks totally standard to me.

Open folding J9s from MP would be pretty nitty unless you've got a crazy dynamic with a good player in CO or BTN.

I don't consider it nitty. Just checked Ryan Fee's opening hand chart and J9s isn't in there. I know it's a ****ty way of looking at things but I think it shows open folding J9s in MP is fine.

Best thing ofc to do is check your database by position and see which hands you're winning and losing money with and adjust.

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07-20-2013 , 12:52 PM

Drachaon

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 638

Well, Ryan Fee is (or perhaps was: 2009?) basically a nit. If it works for you, all power, but it's still tight for modern 6 max. It's going to give you something like 16 VPIP.

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07-20-2013 , 12:54 PM

#10

Herbbb

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 642

[QUOTE=Drachaon;39430569]

Open folding J9s from MP would be pretty nitty
Yeh don't listen to this

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07-20-2013 , 02:02 PM

#11

jamakine

adept

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 718

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachaon

16 VPIP.

Sounds pretty solid for MP.

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07-20-2013 , 02:22 PM

#12

JesusEatsCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,646

opening J9s can be fine from MP depending on table conditions

i would fold it here since we are OOP vs a 52.38/4.76 whos going to call pre alot meaning we have to play OOP with a marginal holding vs a likely calling station

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07-20-2013 , 02:27 PM

#13

Drachaon

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 638

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamakine

Sounds pretty solid for MP.

Nah, that's overall VPIP according the chart we were talking about.

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07-20-2013 , 02:31 PM

#14

Drachaon

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 638

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusEatsCheese

i would fold it here since we are OOP vs a 52.38/4.76 whos going to call pre alot meaning we have to play OOP with a marginal holding vs a likely calling station

Even OOP I want to play pots with a 52/4.7 with J9s. Sure, you probably can't take him off better hands as easily, but those 70bb mistakes he makes on the river are surely going to make it profitable overall.

In any case it's surely a standard open when we're talking in the most general terms.

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07-20-2013 , 02:44 PM

#15

jamakine

adept

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 718

I looked the chart briefly and according this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...-guide-656805/

it is indeed 16 VPIP.

Yet imo EP and MP ranges are pretty solid, others can be widened considerable (esp ~5% blind defense). Imo J9s is playable from the MP but on the borderline. If blind defense is corrected to 15-20 area and CO/BTN is played a bit more aggressive it will be over 20 VPIP.

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07-20-2013 , 02:49 PM

#16

Syfer

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 618

Well played straight flush draws have good equity against everything except some bigger draws like 2 overcards+ a dominating FD. The check raise is really big so you should make a note of what he showed up with.

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07-20-2013 , 04:36 PM

#17

boycalledroy

adept

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,095

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorillachips

J9s is either going to be the top of your folding range or bottom of your calling range pre from MP

I don't understand. So you'll call a raise but fold if folded to you?

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07-20-2013 , 05:25 PM

#18

Syfer

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 618

Quote:

Originally Posted by boycalledroy

I don't understand. So you'll call a raise but fold if folded to you?

No he's saying if you raise it's one of the weakest hands in your range, but if you fold it's one of the strongest hands you would fold. Now I'm not sure why exactly you would ever need to define the top of your folding range, once you've folded it's irrelevent how strong the hand is.

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