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NL50 fold tpmk and flushdraw...Is this ok?

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03-31-2010 , 11:12 AM

#26

sparklingwater

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 66

assuming he is compotent I just dont know what he can minraise with that you are in GREAT shape against

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03-31-2010 , 11:12 AM

#27

gateswi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 11,427

Calling 3-bets with 7x when you aren't deepstacked is a fundamentally wrong play in most cases. Not that he couldn't have done it.

look at the pot odds he gives you sparkling water. assuming he can trap KK+ and other value hands better than QJ here (including 7x) then we should call and probably openshove river if we improve

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03-31-2010 , 11:18 AM

#28

Onyx

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,525

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freewill1978

Maybe it's a leak of mine, but I have a hard time giving someone credit for a 7 in a 3-bet pot.

I'm leaking too! The only 7 I can see gives him quads. Lets call here with our fd, we still have decent equity at the price we are being offered imo.

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03-31-2010 , 11:23 AM

#29

Freewill2112

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,372

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparklingwater

You feasible hand ranges for him are 88 and A,X spades? I think people reguarly turn up with a 6,7 suited or 7,8 suited in these spots especially considering he is the bttn and called the 3 bet not made it.

When I get 3bet, I'm folding most hands with a 7 in them, even IP. (unless I've been getting 3bet a lot; OP doesn't mention if there's any history here with villain) Although here they are a bit deeper so maybe it's okay. Even still, if he had 87, I don't see how he wouldn't raise the flop since bottom 2 is so vulnerable there. So I stand by my assertion that OP is very rarely actually drawing dead here, and he has 10 outs against a 7.

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03-31-2010 , 11:24 AM

#30

sparklingwater

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 66

I must be leaking huge because I would play 7,8 suited there. Is there any strategy posts which explain when you should be calling 3 bets on the button? or is calling 3 bets on the button (without superpremos) fundamentally bad? I think with raggedy low flops you can rep a lot of hands?

Trying to learn not to disagree......

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03-31-2010 , 11:25 AM

#31

sparklingwater

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 66

i would obvs raise 7,8 on that flop though

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03-31-2010 , 11:44 AM

#32

mmac900

banned

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparklingwater

Calling 3 bets with 78 is pretty bad

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03-31-2010 , 11:52 AM

#33

Swiiftx

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 7,991

In order for you to call 87 IP you need to know how he plays his hands in 3bet pots and what hands he plays and preferably be deeper than 100 bbs. But yeah, 3bet pots with 87 against an unknown is a losing strat.

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03-31-2010 , 11:55 AM

#34

two2brains

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

check raise flop for about 3/4 of villians stack and fist pump happily call when he shoves it all in.

if he folds you still win.

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03-31-2010 , 12:00 PM

#35

GOONERCAM

Resident Rollbuster

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dec1

lol stop write random words ....u write just for make more post's in stats or ?

lol dude you've got alot'a attitude for someone who talks sh*t

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03-31-2010 , 12:12 PM

#36

sparklingwater

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 66

learn something everyday.....

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03-31-2010 , 12:13 PM

#37

sparklingwater

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 66

what about calling a pfr in position with suited connectorzzzz against standard tag?

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03-31-2010 , 12:13 PM

#38

Absolutamente

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 439

Let's say hero is 3betting like 10-15% from the blinds to villain's button open. If I was villain I'd def call here with 87s.

Anyway I'd bet more flop and prob c/r turn. There is so much crap he can have here...

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03-31-2010 , 12:17 PM

#39

Freewill2112

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,372

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolutamente

Let's say hero is 3betting like 10-15% from the blinds to villain's button open. If I was villain I'd def call here with 87s.

OP never gave us that info. But he should be 3-betting a decent amount against a 67% ATS. And someone with a 67% ATS can't just be folding 80% to a 3bet if he's at all aware of his own image. So maybe there's some 7's in his range after all?

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03-31-2010 , 12:20 PM

#40

Absolutamente

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 439

I didn't say he shouldn't but if he is that makes 78s a call.

To your edit: Exactly.

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03-31-2010 , 12:28 PM

#41

martin9_90

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,586

pre is a call

flop is obv bet/get it in asap

turn is c/c

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03-31-2010 , 12:30 PM

#42

VithelTone

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5,676

I check the turn.

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03-31-2010 , 08:05 PM

#43

wrdy1984

adept

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 751

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin9_90

pre is a call

flop is obv bet/get it in asap

turn is c/c

Pre is a call? Whaa?
I would never call with this oop. Raise or fold.
Espesh when villain steals so frequently on button.

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04-01-2010 , 03:05 AM

#44

Ligic

banned

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,777

Calling pre is fine vs someone who steals a lot

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04-01-2010 , 03:57 AM

#45

JackOfPain

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,258

Quote:

Originally Posted by VithelTone

I check the turn.

I don't believe you

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04-01-2010 , 08:07 AM

#46

wrdy1984

adept

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 751

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ligic

Calling pre is fine vs someone who steals a lot

This because if we call we are ahead of alot of his range
but if we 3 bet, we are dominated by his calling range?
My plan was not to see a flop oop, it was to pick up the moneys preflop.

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04-01-2010 , 09:29 AM

#47

Ligic

banned

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,777

I think calling is better unless you KNOW he calls a 3bet ip with JTs and such
vs this player i just hate folding pre

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04-01-2010 , 09:49 AM

#48

martin9_90

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,586

we have like 2/5 of a ROYAL FLUSH preflop, i want to see a flop.

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04-01-2010 , 10:00 AM

#49

Ligic

banned

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,777

+ we have 1/4 of two different quads

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04-01-2010 , 12:27 PM

#50

Freewill2112

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,372

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrdy1984

This because if we call we are ahead of alot of his range
but if we 3 bet, we are dominated by his calling range?
My plan was not to see a flop oop, it was to pick up the moneys preflop.

If QJs is dominated by the calling range of a 67% ATS, then you could profitably 3-bet his steal with any two cards until he starts to adjust.

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