Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($105)
Hero ($112)
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($60.10)
CO ($51.85)
BTN ($85)

Dealt to Hero 9 A

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $2, Hero raises to $7, SB raises to $17.50, Hero calls $10.50

FLOP ($35) 2 A 5

SB bets $17.50, Hero?

Villain is playing 20/16/2 over 300 hands or so. We have a fairly aggressive dynamic. I've 3 bet his sb raise twice in the last 5 orbits or so I thought he might be relatively wide (for a 4bet anyways), still don't know if I like my call preflop, thoughts?

Hate calling pre, what do you plan on doing?

Obv when we get this flop we're not going away. I'm happy calling down

flat pre or fold to 4b
I like calling flop and shoving a lot of turns if he bets again

scratch that, stack sizes suck, if he 1/2p turn again you have no FE on a shove because it would essentially be a mr
jam flop, you sometimes make better aces fold and draw out when you don't. You're also not getting another cent from an underpair.

Shove flop u dont have FE on turn

hi can you explain why you flat the 4bet pre?

too pretty to fold dude

and call

Shoving the flop is abysmal.
Shoving the turn is near abysmal.

What better hands are we folding? None. If he has a bigger Ace he's not folding.

If we shove we let him get away when he has things like underpairs, 4-bet bluffs, and 4-bet Ace-blocker bluffs.

Call the flop.

If he shoves a brick turn it's probably just about a call. We have 26% equity versus AK. Pot will lay us 34% equity. Given dynamic, turn call is probably pretty near 0EV (maybe slightly -EV sometimes)

If he checks a brick turn then check it. And bet the river if he checks again.

(And yeah, pre sucks)

oops, stack depth. never mind me.

it can never be horrible but given dynamic i don't think there is any reason to 3b with this hand. but then i love playing deep in position.

calling flop.
leading any clubs or 9 turn.
otherwise c/c down.

dont 3bet imo, flat flop as played

Why flatting the flop ? It's not like we're gonna to extract much on later streets if he holds JJ anyway. I'd happily shove and take the flip now against AA,AQ+.

4bet pot vs deep villian with that kind of hand its a flat call flop.

Villian will cbet there with any2, so its nice to keep him with his range and let him bluff the turn.

Don't three bet, flat the flop lead.

Stomach is churning @ PF play . I'm flatting PF & keeping the pot small with post flop potential and position. If you flat PF you have more room to maneuver OTF.

Since when TP's have started folding in 4bet pots?-)

Okay so it's 200bb deep but the 4bet narrowed the SPR down to 2.5...He ain't folding ace. I'm pretty damned confident that no matter what ace he has he will do atleast crying call begging for 2 clubs from you.

And yea don't call 4bets SPR means there's not much fold equity on the flop anyway if he has anything. You might have hard time getting AK to fold on random Txx flop if he cbets it...And if he has any sort of hand he will not be folding. So you are basically relying on hitting flop well but that does not happen often enough.

^I think the "never fold TP in a 4b pot" falls into the standard category and lots of ppl, especially those who have been playing for a longer time and been active on 2+2 have kinda learned it by heart. If that does not apply to v, I think he's folding enough better hands to make it profitable. You may think ah, but it's a "bvb battle", which is another standard thing taught here and an old, pretty ******ed concept. Just trying to say that a lot of the older posters here are biased to think this way because of what they have learned some time ago and embraced as a way of easier, comfy poker.

Either way, nvm my rant, can anyone describe how the rest of the hand plays out after we flat flop?

Flat pre/3b are both fine imo but no reason to call 4b unless u knew u would flop gin. As played, shove flop or shoving turn is fine. I like calling flop better bc we are IP and villain may bluff another street but I expect him to check turn a lot of the time.

he's not folding a better hand, you're good a lot and have a ****load of equity idk what raising accomplishes

pre is also pointless. you should be taking advantage of his wide range with deep stacks here, not eliminating your edge

Trying tog et somebody fold top pair when SPR is 2.5 is just insane. It's not really about 4bet/5bet/6bet pot but the fact SPR is such a pittances. Yeah A3-A6 are bluffcatchers then but then again how often they are 4betting anyway...

If you want to try to get somebody to fold TP when they are getting 2 to 1 pot odds good luck! I'm pretty damned sure nobody has deliberately folded TP in situation like this Misclick yea but if somebody folds even A9 here then sheesh make note vs him, flat his 4bets more and ship as bluff lot more. You are printing money

******ed spot, jamming or calling down is whatever in my book.

everything is pretty neutral ev imo, you have 45% equity against all the possible AK and AA combos, it going all in anyways some point in the hand if he has those hands with the low spr ratio, and you wont get aton of value against underpairs like KK,QQ on later streets by calling anyways. Best course of action would probably be call flop, and call down if he bets on turn and river, or x/behind the turn and bet river if he checks again, or call river if he bets it after you x/behind, you will get max value against under pairs and the small amount of bluffs from like KQ or some random blocker 4bet bluff hand if they try to bluff river, and AA, AK is going in at some point regardless so just hope you hit the club if he has those hands.

he said there was an aggressive dynamic bvb pre, so he said his 4bet range was relatively wide and he said he still doesnt know if he likes the call.

Crappy reasons. You can't just call to hit A which can cost you your stack, hitting better than Axx flop(at which point you are pot commited anyway and will be paying off better aces every time) is extremely rare and you don't have that much FE. If he has any sort of pair that doens't have 2+ overcards on flop he's unlikely to fold. Top pair or better never.

If he's really 4betting wide then 5bet bluffshove rather than call.

Frankly I would probably flat pf rather than 3bet. Hand plays well when SPR is very deep so why not play to it's strenght rather than reduce SPR more toward what top pair top kicker hands like? ESPECIALLY if he's 4betting light...