NL50: 3Betting AK versus shortie fish - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL50: 3Betting AK versus shortie fish

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06-17-2010 , 03:57 PM

Swingin

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,254

Villain is 63/30 over 40 hands. Notes
"Calling cbets OOP with two bare overs, spike turn and donk
C3BOOP 37s and playing passively on 4TJ(mt)T"

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $84.00
MP: $25.20
Hero (CO): $59.35
BTN: $84.75
SB: $65.05
BB: $82.15

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with K

1 fold, MP raises to $2, Hero raises to $6, 3 folds, MP calls $4

Flop: ($12.75) 6

(2 players)
MP bets $19.20 all in

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06-17-2010 , 04:25 PM

gateswi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 11,427

I would briefly entertain calling if we had a little more BD equity (flop was Td9d5h for example) but I just fold this

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06-17-2010 , 05:58 PM

Airnick15

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 242

Fold, you can find a better spot to stack this guy.

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06-17-2010 , 06:38 PM

NimhOfJoy

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,492

What does this mean:

"...C3BOOP 37s and playing passively on 4TJ(mt)T"

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06-17-2010 , 06:46 PM

fish491

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,130

calling 3thbet out of position
37 suited and playing passively on a 4TJ monotone board?

right,

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06-17-2010 , 07:22 PM

Swingin

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish491

calling 3thbet out of position
37 suited and playing passively on a 4TJ monotone board?

right,

Well done sir.

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06-17-2010 , 07:35 PM

NimhOfJoy

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,492

You saying he called a 3b OOP w 37s? And I'm assuming he played passively when he flopped the flush...

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06-17-2010 , 08:00 PM

Thisbetom

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 459

After stoving around some, assuming he doesn't do this with a merged range (i.e., all fd/Gutters and no pairs), you have ~breakeven equity to call.

That said, anytime he shoves 67o, or 9x cause he doesn't know what to do and is tilting, you're losing money.

+1 on backdoor outs, but given you have position, and he likes to play back at you, I'd just fold and wait for another spot.

I might also factor in how he played with momentum? If he's going to lock down and c/f to you for the remainder of the session cause he doubles up here then fold and wait.

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06-17-2010 , 08:04 PM

Thisbetom

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 459

Most of this stuff completely ignore your reads though... If he plays passively w/ made hands and is shoving all FDs + combo FD's, you're winning ~4-10bb each time you call here (just a guess post stoving)? All boils down to how much faith you put in that read.

I think if he calls 3bets w/ 37s OOP, then you can find a better place.

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06-17-2010 , 08:12 PM

#10

Swingin

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by NimhOfJoy

You saying he called a 3b OOP w 37s? And I'm assuming he played passively when he flopped the flush...

He c/c OOP with 7 high. Board was spades, he had diamonds. He is clicking buttons.

I've been abusing him like a red headed step child. Third 3bet in the past couple orbits.

We know he is randomly clicking buttons and I've been abusing him endlessly.

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06-17-2010 , 08:16 PM

#11

jr4284

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,247

If he's calling all 3-bets, you need to be 3-betting larger. Like I wouldn't have hesitated to just put him all in here. A 50 bb 3-bet with AK vs. this guy is just printing money.

(As played, fold)

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06-17-2010 , 08:33 PM

#12

pajala

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,220

Fold and wait
Patience is the key to getting these guys to stack off to you wait for a better position

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06-17-2010 , 09:12 PM

#13

Diabolitio

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 141

Fold and wait for better spot to stack off that aggressive fish. 3bet him preflop to ~8,5$ for value if you know he will call that.

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06-17-2010 , 10:14 PM

#14

Swingin

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,254

Thanks for the advice. I should have adjusted my 3betting size to ~$9ish. Makes the flop super easy!

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06-17-2010 , 10:19 PM

#15

GOONERCAM

Resident Rollbuster

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,994

making it $9 is silly. pre is fine. just fold the flop. i don't see too much of a conundrum here

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06-17-2010 , 10:22 PM

#16

Stemm

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 731

No merit to flatting pre?

Seems like we're charging ourselves a premium unnecessarily by 3-betting pre, and it's almost as easy to get his stack in w/o 3-betting.

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06-17-2010 , 10:23 PM

#17

Swingin

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOONERCAM

making it $9 is silly.

Against this guy... who calls everything... it's like the best thing ever. He's calling $6 with 37s... I'm pretty sure he doesn't care about a couple more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stemm

No merit to flatting pre?

Seems like we're charging ourselves a premium unnecessarily by 3-betting pre, and it's almost as easy to get his stack in w/o 3-betting.

Good point. I 3bet it to capitalize on our pre-flop equity value. Seemed nutzo to flat. But flatting is actually pretty sweet because you can back-raise all in, It's likely I'll get squeezed.

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06-17-2010 , 10:26 PM

#18

GOONERCAM

Resident Rollbuster

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingin

Against this guy... who calls everything... it's like the best thing ever. He's calling $6 with 37s... I'm pretty sure he doesn't care about a couple more.

Good point. I 3bet it to capitalize on our pre-flop equity value. Seemed nutzo to flat. But flatting is actually pretty sweet because you can back-raise all in, It's likely I'll get squeezed.

okay, so by that logic you should just jam.....

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06-17-2010 , 10:29 PM

#19

Stemm

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 731

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingin

It's likely I'll get squeezed.

I think villain's stack makes it much less likely you'll get squeezed light

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06-17-2010 , 10:29 PM

#20

Swingin

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOONERCAM

okay, so by that logic you should just jam.....

Extremism. A larger 3bet is good, but a jam is ******ed because he doesn't want to go broke pre. He wants to see a flop, not get his stack in preflop with 39. You need to draw the line where he's likely to call the most money with the widest range. I agree with the posts who say it's around $8-9. If he doesn't adjust, I'm comfy pushing my edge with AK. A jam is a different situation entirely.

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06-17-2010 , 10:32 PM

#21

GOONERCAM

Resident Rollbuster

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,994

i doubt youll get why, but from your explanation of your pfr play you should be calling this shove 100% of the time

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06-17-2010 , 10:33 PM

#22

Swingin

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOONERCAM

i doubt youll get why, but from your explanation of your pfr play you should be calling this shove 100% of the time

Actually, I get it. I snapped him off.

I appreciate all the responses in this thread. If I leveraged my 3bet size, post-flop would be really easy. My pre-flop mistake murkied the waters. I think this is a pretty easy call, but I do value different opinions. And it's tougher because he's over-betting. I still think calling is correct, but I turned an easy decision into a difficult one, and frankly lost value on a street-by-street basis. If I go $9 pre, he calls, pot is big enough that I'm again calling his donk. It's just a worse situation when I inadvertently leave him deep on the flop.

Last edited by Swingin; 06-17-2010 at 10:41 PM.

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06-18-2010 , 12:38 AM

#23

uganation

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,729

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingin

you are basically saying that 3betting bigger creates pot odds. Making a decision so that later decisions are easier is not a reason to do it. DUCY?

You didn't make a mistake pre. I think this is a crying fold on the flop because so many pps do this and that flop kinda hits his range and looks to protect. just trying to get in the fishes head here.

and just because I love this video and it kinda relates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKyys_mDxoM

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06-18-2010 , 02:00 AM

#24

AlanDyer

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,680

probably just a fold, you're only beating KJ type hands with no draws... everything else is doing well vs u

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