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NL25 River decision vs agro NL25 River decision vs agro

09-19-2014 , 06:03 AM
Villain is 25/21 with 14% check/raise with 3.6 AF

His line looks like a busted draw on the river for me. I still wonder why he took this line with KJ; check/raise flop and then just check the turn. To me it seemed like he was on a draw. Do we still have to fold this, or do we call because he is agro and made a weird play with top 2 pair on a drawy board?

Can't be too bad of a call I guess?


    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #30799881

    SB: $53.65 (214.6 bb)
    BB: $25 (100 bb)
    Hero (UTG): $53.48 (213.9 bb)
    MP: $25 (100 bb)
    CO: $25 (100 bb)
    BTN: $25 (100 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q J
    Hero raises to $0.75, MP folds, CO calls $0.75, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50

    Flop: ($2.35) J K 7 (3 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $1.50, CO folds, BB raises to $4.75, Hero calls $3.25

    Turn: ($11.85) 2 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero checks

    River: ($11.85) 6 (2 players)
    BB bets $19.50 and is all-in, Hero calls $19.50

    Spoiler:
    Results: $50.85 pot ($2 rake)
    Final Board: J K 7 2 6
    BB showed J K and won $48.85 ($23.85 net)
    Hero showed Q J and lost (-$25 net)



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    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 06:17 AM
    All good except of the river.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 07:32 AM
    I think it's played well. River is tough but don't mind call.

    Btw, don't talk about his hand. Makes the spoiler pointless.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 08:58 AM
    Easy check on the flop
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 02:52 PM
    ^ Yep looks a good hand to have in our c/c range.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 03:01 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TWhelan
    Easy check on the flop
    +1
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 03:22 PM
    agree with checking flop
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 03:36 PM
    whatever u do on the flop is fine (except folding), snap fold river
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 06:58 PM
    I don't like the river call. Easy fold. If he is willing to bluff his stack off like that (which is rare), then kudos to him. But we shouldn't be finding out. We've got a bluff catcher hand that works better against a smaller river bet, something like 2/3.

    As for the flop, the more I think about it, the more I like the x/c line. The only worse that calls is an AcXc hand and maybe a TcXc hand. We don't get enough value multiway, and it does kind of suck when we're raised.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 07:15 PM
    i dont play in these games but i would be surprised if the river call wasn't spew
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 09:43 PM
    Fold river
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 09:54 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ohsnapzbrah
    I don't like the river call. Easy fold. If he is willing to bluff his stack off like that (which is rare), then kudos to him. But we shouldn't be finding out. We've got a bluff catcher hand that works better against a smaller river bet, something like 2/3.

    As for the flop, the more I think about it, the more I like the x/c line. The only worse that calls is an AcXc hand and maybe a TcXc hand. We don't get enough value multiway, and it does kind of suck when we're raised.

    Wow I always C bet on these kind of spots. You explained why not to very delicately. Thanks
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-19-2014 , 10:42 PM
    We have a pair plus the second nut flush. How good/bad is pushing the flop after we get cr'd? If he folds a Kx hand, fine. If he calls, fine - we have 13 outs plus a bd straight draw for the equiv of one more. There's a significant chance of folding 2p hands. 77 is calling us obviously, as is AcJ/K/7.

    I'm away from a computer to stove it up and add in some fe assumptions, but intuitively this seems like a good play.

    (We're repping kk, JJ, 77, QTc, AcK, KcJ, AcJ, etc).
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-20-2014 , 04:15 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iocane
    We have a pair plus the second nut flush. How good/bad is pushing the flop after we get cr'd? If he folds a Kx hand, fine. If he calls, fine - we have 13 outs plus a bd straight draw for the equiv of one more. There's a significant chance of folding 2p hands. 77 is calling us obviously, as is AcJ/K/7.

    I'm away from a computer to stove it up and add in some fe assumptions, but intuitively this seems like a good play.

    (We're repping kk, JJ, 77, QTc, AcK, KcJ, AcJ, etc).
    This seems a good option too! I Will put those in when I'm back home using Flopzilla
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-20-2014 , 05:31 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GilZ89
    This seems a good option too!
    not really, you don't need to do calcs on it to find out you're about flipping vs his range, it doesn't make an argument (and the actual argument usually turns into a cluster****, so i'm not even going to attempt, but i'm sure some others can)
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-20-2014 , 08:05 AM
    lol @ BB's turn check
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-20-2014 , 01:13 PM
    Regarding the flop reraise, the point is not if it is +ev, the point is if it is more +ev than calling (it's not)
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-23-2014 , 08:14 AM
    i dont like the river call at all, you can only beat a bluff any king has you and he raised your flop bet so hes representing a broadway draw, trips, two pair, or AK AA blah all hands that have you dominated(minus the draw), and the confident bet on the river he shot i think is a sure sign your beat this is an easy fold, you were there to hit a flush and it missed so why did you call?
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-23-2014 , 05:18 PM
    I'm torn about the flop. 2 way flop I agree check is clearly best. 3 way flop against unknowns (presumably passive), I'm not that enthusiastic about giving AT A3dd 98 free cards for 1-2 streets. Our equity is good enough for the bet to be close to a valuebet v Kx.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-24-2014 , 08:15 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hashishiyun
    i dont like the river call at all, you can only beat a bluff any king has you and he raised your flop bet so hes representing a broadway draw, trips, two pair, or AK AA blah all hands that have you dominated(minus the draw), and the confident bet on the river he shot i think is a sure sign your beat this is an easy fold, you were there to hit a flush and it missed so why did you call?
    Because I thought he would play his missed draws this way (too). Reasoning was that if he has 2 pair+ otf, he would have lead out on the turn on this drawy board.
    That's the reason I called otr
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-24-2014 , 10:20 AM
    Imho shove on the flop for the reasons explained by Iocane. AP fold river.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-24-2014 , 12:30 PM
    Although I think a river bet OTR looks like a bluff on this board, I think the fact he 2b OTF and JAMMED otr makes it a pretty easy fold for me.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-24-2014 , 12:36 PM
    We had a good talk some months back about why we don't go absolutely ape**** cuz zomg pair+FD, so I think b/3b is unnecessary.

    I like x/c flop quite a bit. Lumi makes some pretty fair points about betting the flop. Think we can mix and it's not the worst thing, but I'm in the check flop almost always camp.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote
    09-24-2014 , 12:39 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VantACoo-key?
    We had a good talk some months back about why we don't go absolutely ape**** cuz zomg pair+FD, so I think b/3b is unnecessary.

    I like x/c flop quite a bit. Lumi makes some pretty fair points about betting the flop. Think we can mix and it's not the worst thing, but I'm in the check flop almost always camp.
    Yeah, I also agree that having this hand for x/c is really solid. Just value bet vs. the fish and x/c vs. the regs for me.
    NL25 River decision vs agro Quote

          
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