NL25, A8o BvB - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL25, A8o BvB

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08-24-2009 , 11:59 PM

QandA201

adept

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,103

Is this a fold on the turn or is the call down ok? No reads, villain's fourth hand at the table.

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $25.60
CO: $9.85
BTN: $13.50
Hero (SB): $26.75
BB: $17.75
UTG: $25.55

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with A

4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $1, BB raises to $2, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($5.50) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3, Hero calls $3

River: ($11.50) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5, Hero calls $5

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08-25-2009 , 12:03 AM

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

c/f river

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08-25-2009 , 12:05 AM

QandA201

adept

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaKsOZ

c/f river

You c/c turn and c/f river? Why not just c/f turn then? Is he checking back a high % on river in your opinion?

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08-25-2009 , 12:19 AM

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

a Q is the only hand you beat, and I can see villain firing 2 streets with a Q and slow down the river, but in that hand I don't see what you beat, the flop is so dry, i think he has 2 pairs here often.

But a Q is rarely min raising the flop, so I think he flopped 2pair or is bluffing

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08-25-2009 , 12:25 AM

globetrotter

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 17,707

i can't find a line here that I like.

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08-25-2009 , 12:27 AM

globetrotter

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 17,707

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaKsOZ

But a Q is rarely min raising the flop, so I think he flopped 2pair or is bluffing

Agree w/ this. And I don't like the idea of calling down 3 streets against an unknown hoping to catch a bluff.

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08-25-2009 , 12:28 AM

globetrotter

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 17,707

I also feel like when we flat call the min raise and check the turn villain is firing again most of the time

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08-25-2009 , 12:31 AM

QandA201

adept

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,103

So then would it be better to 3bet/fold flop to like $5, or c/c turn, c/f river?

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08-25-2009 , 12:39 AM

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

you can 3bet flop and fold to a 4bet, and if you are called on the 3bet just c/f turn.

otherwise yeah i think c/c turn and c/f river is fine, results ???

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08-25-2009 , 12:40 AM

#10

globetrotter

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 17,707

I think the best options, in no particular order, are:
call flop, ch/call turn, ch/fold river
small 3b/fold flop
fold to the minraise

Probably c, ch/c, ch/f > fold > 3bet/fold

We want him to keep bluffing if he is bluffing, but there is the danger that we call two streets when he has very few bluffs in his range - or that I am wrong and he fires the river w/ bluffs a lot after taking this line. If we 3bet w/ find out "where we're at" much quicker, but we also let him play perfectly against us. And folding outright seems weak - but may be best until we have reads???

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08-25-2009 , 12:43 AM

#11

QandA201

adept

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,103

Makes sense, my original intent in the hand was to c/c turn c/f river but I got value-towned. By A5o. Damn turn cards imo.

Thanks for the insight.

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08-25-2009 , 12:51 AM

#12

SkittleBrau

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 185

With no reads, I'm never quite sure what to do here. It's not too pricey to get to showdown so it doesn't feel too bad to me calling it down. Sometimes people go wacky with bottom pair or air in these BvB spots. You are going to be to in this spot to his right til one of you leaves so there is some value in seeing what he's doing here maybe...

3betting the flop really just turns your hand into a bluff against most opponents IMO. I'd rather show it down for a little bit more and see what's going on here plus get value if he's spewing with worse.

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08-25-2009 , 12:52 AM

#13

globetrotter

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 17,707

Yeah, was going to add the turn and river are bad for u b/c he improves some of the hands you beat that might minr flop. Now that I think about it, I see this line a lot w/ weak tp hands. And river was so tempting but looked so much like a vb at the same time

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08-25-2009 , 01:10 AM

#14

Gravy

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,077

agree that call flop c/c turn c/f river is probably the best line vs an unknown minraising the flop

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08-25-2009 , 01:19 AM

#15

G_train24

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 656

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravy

agree that call flop c/c turn c/f river is probably the best line vs an unknown minraising the flop

Think I agree with this. Also in this spot OOP I usually 4x it pre as opposed to 3x like you have here, anyone have a preference either way??

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08-25-2009 , 01:51 AM

#16

aiRpurifier

grinder

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 555

open 4BB from small blind.
bad kicker and dry board; I sometimes c/c flop. c/c turn.

as played, against an unknown turn looks like a fold.

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08-25-2009 , 02:05 AM

#17

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by aiRpurifier

open 4BB from small blind.
bad kicker and dry board; I sometimes c/c flop. c/c turn.

i don't like c/c this flop, you are just playing a guessing game by c/c every streets.

also b/c flop and c/f a turn like that is weak imo, if the turn is a 10+ ok to c/f turn but on a 5 I don't think it's that scary

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08-25-2009 , 02:18 AM

#18

Tanner1274

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 452

turn is probably a fold. The min raise on the turn is probably strong, so when he follows up with a bet on the turn I think you can just fold.

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08-25-2009 , 02:33 AM

#19

AlanDyer

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,680

if you c/c the turn, you should c/c the river.. folding to the minraise on the flop sucks, so, i think you played it ok

check call turn = 40%
check fold turn =60%

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08-25-2009 , 02:50 AM

#20

socalsucka

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 336

When you checked the turn was it for pot control or to induce bluffs? I would just fold on the turn. Villains at the micros rarely fire two bullets with air/weak hands on this type of board where there is no flush draw and like basically no straight draws in his range.

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08-25-2009 , 03:23 AM

#21

wishiewish

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 11,219

Fold turn or call river.

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08-25-2009 , 12:09 PM

#22

Dumuzi

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,621

an option i didnt see mentioned yet would be to bet/fold the turn and river small (2 blocking bets), like $1.50 each street. comfortably fold to a raise and it costs the same as c/c a normal turn bet (he bet $3).

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