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NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn
View Poll Results: What to do on the turn?
call shove
6 100.00%
Fold
0 0%

09-25-2024 , 07:03 AM
Villain: 29/3, hands: 221

Questions:

1) Can I ever fold this? Are there enough of worse hands to call or is this always JT?
2) Was my bet sizing okay on the turn or should I bet smaller?

SB: $17.28 (172.8 bb)
BB: $11.07 (110.7 bb)
Hero (UTG+1): $10 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $12.27 (122.7 bb)
MP1: $9.11 (91.1 bb)
MP2: $10.95 (109.5 bb)
MP3: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $10.46 (104.6 bb)
BTN: $10.59 (105.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K K
Hero raises to $0.25, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 4 folds, SB calls $0.20, BB folds

Flop: ($0.85) 6 K Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.55, MP1 folds, SB calls $0.55

Turn: ($1.95) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.45, SB raises to $16.48 and is all-in, Hero?
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 07:04 AM
I think I should go a little bit bigger on the flop. 0.65-0.75$
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 08:18 AM
I agree with Slasher, although in this case think you would end up in the same situation on turn.

Assuming no info on villain, clear fold for me and tag him as a fish
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 08:57 AM
Not folding top set to fish on this board. If he has JT, so be it, we have outs.
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 10:21 AM
Lol @ considering folding. I am confused.. so you are only going to call the pure nuts here?
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 10:29 AM
We need 40% and we are getting like 22% to improve.

He doesn't need to have many bluffs or worse value hands for us to break even. Is K9 not possible? Q9? Perhaps 99? 66 sometimes? 9dTd? 78dd?
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 12:03 PM
Turn clear call

Flop depends what kind of players they are in general this is too big for top set and you shouldn't bet big sizing in mw too often. I would also bet smaller ott you want to keep Qx in, and most regs will fold that to this size.
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 12:06 PM
My reason for calling was that villain might have twopairs or turned set 99. I had a feeling that villain was somewhat passive and only raised with good hands. But yeh still cant fold top set even with that info.

I just wanted to doublecheck if my reasoning was okay or do I call too loosely in these situations.

Good to hear that call in this situation is "standard"

And yeah villain had JT...
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _doc_
We need 40% and we are getting like 22% to improve.

He doesn't need to have many bluffs or worse value hands for us to break even. Is K9 not possible? Q9? Perhaps 99? 66 sometimes? 9dTd? 78dd?
Yeah sounds reasonable. I thought this too
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher-
My reason for calling was that villain might have twopairs or turned set 99. I had a feeling that villain was somewhat passive and only raised with good hands. But yeh still cant fold top set even with that info.

I just wanted to doublecheck if my reasoning was okay or do I call too loosely in these situations.

Good to hear that call in this situation is "standard"

And yeah villain had JT...
Can he really have 99?
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haizemberg93
Can he really have 99?
Good question. When I think it again, most of the time 99 folds on this flop. Especially when a player is passive
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 01:16 PM
I wouldn't rule it out completely after just 1 cbet
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 01:56 PM
Do you have an equity calculator you like? I'd use that more in spots like this than a solver, that way you can lock in realistic ranges easier. It's going to be difficult to find a range where you have < 50% equity w/ top set.
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakDaddy
Do you have an equity calculator you like? I'd use that more in spots like this than a solver, that way you can lock in realistic ranges easier. It's going to be difficult to find a range where you have < 50% equity w/ top set.
I do have equilab and pokerstove.

I gave Villain a range of: QQ,66,KQs,K9s,JTs,KQo,JTo

Against this range KK has 49,9% equity

So I guess it is a coinflip.

Interesting. If I remove JTo but keep JTs, then my equity goes to 75%

Last edited by Slasher-; 09-25-2024 at 03:28 PM.
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 03:35 PM
K9s isn't possible cos of blockers, but if we're saying he flats JTo pre maybe he flats K9o as well. This one is a bit closer than if it was a 40+VPIP guy but as a general rule I don't fold top set to a fishy looking player because they do way too much weird **** that makes no sense lol.. You don't need many combos for this to be breaking even/+EV even if you give him every combo of JT, and if you're doing that you need to give him lots of other stuff.. Could even be a big draw sometimes AdJd, 9Tdd etc
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 04:01 PM
Never ever folding when K9 and Q9 are in their range.
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 04:08 PM
It's pretty much a fistpump call.
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andymc1
K9s isn't possible cos of blockers, but if we're saying he flats JTo pre maybe he flats K9o as well. This one is a bit closer than if it was a 40+VPIP guy but as a general rule I don't fold top set to a fishy looking player because they do way too much weird **** that makes no sense lol.. You don't need many combos for this to be breaking even/+EV even if you give him every combo of JT, and if you're doing that you need to give him lots of other stuff.. Could even be a big draw sometimes AdJd, 9Tdd etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulgakov
Never ever folding when K9 and Q9 are in their range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AskZandar
It's pretty much a fistpump call.
Sounds good Gentlemen
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-25-2024 , 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher-
I do have equilab and pokerstove.

I gave Villain a range of: QQ,66,KQs,K9s,JTs,KQo,JTo

Against this range KK has 49,9% equity

So I guess it is a coinflip.

Interesting. If I remove JTo but keep JTs, then my equity goes to 75%
Ok, good... ya, I just punched it in, and I'd give him this range, which is probably a little conservative.

This hand driven to you directly from DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD & Database
Board: 6c Kd Qd 9h Xx


Code:
Equity            Win               Tie               Hand Range

50.5051%          50.5051%          0%                [ KcKs ]  

49.4949%          49.4949%          0%                [ ADJD(100), ADTD(100), AD9D(100), KQs(100), KQo(100), JTs(100), JTo(100), TD9D(100), 66(100),K9s(50), 9C9S(50), 9D9S(50), 9H9S(50) ]
So, pretty easy call. Sucks when they have it though.
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote
09-26-2024 , 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakDaddy
Ok, good... ya, I just punched it in, and I'd give him this range, which is probably a little conservative.

So, pretty easy call. Sucks when they have it though.
Thanks for your help Mr Freak Daddy. I will grind on in your honour. And yes it sucked hard
NL10 - Top set facing a check/shove on the turn Quote

      
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