i do not understand.
someone please pm me the meaning of bottomset's list.

I'm rooming with the most hated shortstacker in the world during PCA

Whos gonna beat me up!

who is that?

BT2
AceCR8
nation

So I guess MTTR got paid off by the illuminati? The real secret is to always buy in for 23BB and always open raise 5BB. They'll try to have me killed for divulging this.

CHOO CHOO

Mason says, "No".

If you want to sell your "book" on 2+2, buy an ad..

(Or write a real book and convince 2+2 to publish it).

I always thought people hated fatal error more than imsa

makes sense...ty for replying

I'm debating what to do as far as posting alot of info or not

I'm truly not sure what is in the best interest of the game

while I'm not good, I'm much better than the player you remember terrorizing OnGame

I'm fairly sure that any player could apply himself and be making 5 figures a month within 3 months with 20BB buyins, which brings me to the later point on it being better for players to play fullstack from a financial perspective

doubtful...the vast majority would be in better financial situation shorting IMO

there just aren't that many people who are good at the dynamics of fullstack poker

I wish you luck countering if you are playing with other 60+BB stacks

Choo [censored] Choo

lol

both take time to become a winning player @ higher limits. anyone who is smart and puts in the time will be a long term winner @ either one. however full stacking has a higher potential ev than short stacking. I would be suprised to see a SS'er @ 2/4+ winning over 2ptbb/100 over a large sample. and if there are some, I would confidently guess its <10.

I have yet to see a +ev SS'er playing HU btw, and I've played plenty.

you must not read MSNL

I ate dinner once with Imsa and he said a lot of people hate him...

Its funny because hes a really nice kid in real life

I completely agree

Sorry but I don't buy this idea at all. The idea that there are a handful of rules and by following them profit is almost guaranteed is absurd.

Do similar rules exist for fullstacking? In theory I know what I should do but the whole idea of learning poker is to learn to apply information and knowleadge in a playing situation. This is not easy. If it was I would read the best 5 books ever written on poker, memorize them, and be one of the best poker players in the world.

Do you see how absurd this idea is? Similarly it is absurd that for SS'ing there are guidelines and by knowing them makes you great. Even by knowing and learning those guidelines does not guarantee a least bit a winning player.

I don't buy the idea that SS'ing is somehow different from fullstacking in the way that it can be applied to become a winner. I am sorry to tell you guys but there is no Holy Grail, no shortcut to become a winning player.

I am sorry if I have misunderstood the debate.

LOLLED and LOLLED and LOLLED

In Tic-Tac-Toe there is a set of rules that if you follow you can never lose. Shortstacking is really only played on 2 streets PF and the flop. If u really understand Shortstacking u can make money, If you are smart enough to really understand the dynamics of shortstacking, you can make much more playing a Full stack.

Nope, Full stacking is like playing chess.

Ulkis,

Yes, you are correct when you say that poker is hard. But the shortie isn't playing poker. He's playing a differant game called "shove."

It's hand range vs hand range. Mr. McShove buys in for 20bb at a table where everyone else had 100bb. (That's the key point - That everyone else had a big stack and he doesn't.)

The big stackers are, for the most part, playing hands that rely on implied odds - Hands like SCs & suited gappers, small pairs, suited aces & kings, etc. Hand distrobution indicated that when a big stack enters a pot for a raise or calls a raise, it is far more likely that he's playing one of these implied odds hands rather than a big pair.

The shortie isn't playing implied odds hands. He's playing hands like AK, AQ, KQ & JJ+. And remember - most flops miss most players. So when the shortie shoves on the flop, even unimproved, the vast majority of the time he is likely to either have his opponent crushed or be just a very small dog.

So hand range plus fold equity makes it profitable in the long run for the shortie to shove any flop that he sees head's up. If you don't belive that, then why is your c-bet percentage so high?

Yes, a good deep stack player can adjust his range and start to play top pair poker vs the shortie. But in doing so he's offering great implied odds to the other deep stack players at the table.

And that is the advantage that the shortie had over the deep stack player. The deep stack player has to play with the specter of the other deep stack players at the table felting him. He has to watch out for reverse implied odds and play four streets of poker.

Mr. McShove doesn't have to do that. By playing Shove, he only has to play two streets and doesn't have to worry about odds at all.



[i](If any group of hard core limit hold'em players ever got it into their heads to kill internet NL cash and drive all the fish back to limit hold'em, they could open a "boiler room," train 12-16 players to work in shifts, multi-tabling 16 tables of NL cash 24/7 on all the major poker sites across all limits. It wouldn't take long for a "MIT Poker Team" to kill the game and drive off the fish.)

You don't think there are 12-16 good short stackers in the world already? I think you underestimate the number of sites and games and hours in the day. But say it were possible, I don't think the outcome would be worth the trouble.

I guess I'm outta the loop. I don't get it.