UTG posted BB


Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 0.1(BB)
HERO (122.6BBs)
UTG (100BBs) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 33.3% | Flop Agg: 100% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 0% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
HJ (100BBs) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Flop Agg: 0% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 0% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
CO (72.6BBs) [VPIP: 70.8% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 29.3% | Hands: 26]
BTN (99.1BBs) [VPIP: 45% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 22.7% | Hands: 20]
SB (100.1BBs) [VPIP: 23.5% | PFR: 17.6% | AGG: 17.6% | Flop Agg: 42.9% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 0% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 17]

Dealt to Hero: 2 3

UTG Checks, HJ Checks, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Calls 0.5BBs, HERO Checks

Hero SPR on Flop: [24.75 effective]
Flop (4BBs): J 3 9
SB Checks, HERO Checks, UTG Bets 1.9BBs (Rem. Stack: 97.1BBs), HJ Folds, SB Folds, HERO Raises To 8.4BBs (Rem. Stack: 113.2BBs), UTG Calls 6.5BBs (Rem. Stack: 90.6BBs)

Turn (20.8BBs): J 3 9 Q
HERO Checks, UTG Checks

River (20.8BBs): J 3 9 Q 8
Now what??

x/jam

Why are you x/ring this with bottom pair on a draw heavy board when UTG bet into so many people?

I thought his sizing could be weak and I could get him to fold things like 2 overs w/o a draw.

Also I think his range is the widest since he posted.

The flop seems so bad or weird that idk what the best thing to do is later in the hand. Just fold the flop.

I can accept that.

After the check raise, villains range must be some thing like flush draws, decent Jacks and 9's, broadway floats, some pocket pairs, maybe some Ax Kx of hearts, an occasion set. Turn I think you've capped your range and took most sets/ two pairs out your range by checking. By the river your value range looks capped to one pair mostly with a few straights. Villains has lots of two pairs and tens here. It's a check fold. Think about board texture when making a move, to me this smashes a fishes continue range.

Definitely bet river as played, don't go too big though.

It looks like you are mixing some theory play in vs fish which I wouldn't do since they overcall vs check-raises.

Would call flop as well.

Why would he be betting 2 overs into this many people on the flop on this flop texture?

On a scale of 1 to 10 bad on the flop, this is one of those 11's. You don't have any great re-draws. You're on a board that you can only win if your opponent has a draw and misses. And you'd need to empty your clip to get to that point. Your opponent bet into 3 people on a draw heavy board that hits a lot of limped ranges. You're OOP. It's an extremely -EV on a lot of levels.

Was there some specific theory you were trying to apply? Or was it basically you thought he was weak?

An 11!?

In Uri Peleg's check-raise course he details the 3 types of bluffs you want to have in your range after building around value.

1. Draws

2. Backdoor Hands

3. 2nd and 3rd pairs

I'm assuming NG used the 3rd hand class but applied it towards Fish play. Yeah it's not good but I can understand his thought process.

Newguy is this correct or am I wrong?

Yeah I thought bottom pairs make decent XR candidates, but maybe we're supposed to use combos with better backdoors. Like T3o would be better, and would certainly make the river easier to play

I guess I see FD's side too that even if XRing a hand like BP is okay, that this might not be the best dynamic to do so.

Yeah that makes sense. We only use that play vs regulars though since fish overcall flops/turns.

Just call flop imo.

What's the point of calling the flop after someone bets into 3 people? you have one out that's remotely clean, and all unpared hands have 2 overs at worst. Decent chance you're already drawing dead.

Yes. I love NewGuy's hands he posts, but this is really, really bad.

If you're taking the above and applying it to this hand, you're misapplying the strategy.

I guess we have different metrics for really really bad or 11 out of 10 bad.

NG still understood the concept here, he just misapplied it to the wrong player type.

I would say something is really really bad if they:

1. Misunderstood the concept

2. Misapplied the concept

3. Think they understand 1 and 2.

That would be the worst case scenario because not only are you making mistakes in both theory and practice but you also aren't learning from those mistakes.

They are super wide here and only B50. We print on river nodes so we continue more than normal.

Fish ranges don't change much based on number of the people in the pot, they also don't change much based on position.

I feel like the better lines I could've taken are (in no particular order)

1. XF
2. XC-X-B
3. XC-XF

What are you arguing exactly?

He misapplied it to the action, the flop, his secondary out equity, his position, and the player.

It's just a x/f on the flop. Anything else is -EV.

Yeah I'm arguing he only misapplied it to the player.

Why would you ever fold flop? It's very likely UTG is a fish since he posted when he could of just waited one hand for the natural BB.

Fish don't distinguish between 4 way and heads up pots enough to make the flop a fold. They don't understand ranges, they also don't distinguish between positions. You always call flop because we outperform OTT/OTR.

You always play looser OTF vs a fish. Also the most common size from Fish is B50. But it's also the least barreled size OTT. So again, you are incentivized to call wider OTF.

And the last thing is, both HJ and SB already folded so you are last to act and are closing the action. Which again makes us want to call flop.

I don't think we should fold backdoor flush draw+backdoor quad draw vs fish 1/2 pot

Respectfully, this is getting a little too pedantic for me at this point.

I gave my view and opinion. You're allowed to ignore it.

Ran these filters




Got this

Nice filters. You should filter non Ace high boards because they will usually have top pair on the Ace high boards.

"Never go broke in a limped pot."
Mike Sexton