Anonymous Pool

[converted_hand][hand_history]IPoker, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $48.97 (97.9 bb)
BB: $55.76 (111.5 bb)
UTG: $51.83 (103.7 bb)
MP: $54.19 (108.4 bb)
CO: $43.93 (87.9 bb)
Hero (BTN): $49.50 (99 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with J J
2 folds, CO raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, 2 folds, CO raises to $12.25, Hero calls $7.75

Flop: ($25.25) Q 7 T (2 players)
CO bets $7.91, Hero calls $7.91

Turn: ($41.07) 5 (2 players)
[color="red"]CO bets $23.77 and is all-in[/color

Push pre vs this stack size (maybe fish/semifish) ? As played is a fold turn , right ?

Fish aren't 4betting light and tend to call with hands that should 4bet for value, so definitely not shoving pre

Turn is a fold, they aren't bluffing and we can stack off with AQ/KQs

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This is a standard shove preflop even 100bb deep, especially vs a pretty big 25bb 4bet. Vs this size I would not have much of a calling range.

I suspect turn is a fold, even if we assume they have a good 4bet bluff range. You beat AK, AT, KT, A5, JT... but I don't know if they have all the "traditional" 4bets bluffs. And if they have you are behind AQo, QTs, TT, KQo...
Any idea how your pool is playing there?

A few hours ago...

I know 1 example can't invalidate a general principle like the one you state above, but I have doubts. In my experience it's very common to see recreational players stacking off with middle pairs, Ax type of hands, out of frustration maybe or because they are not too sure how they are supposed to play them. Or because they put you on AK, which causes me frustration as it is often indeed the case

€0.25 NL FAST (6 max)

BTN: 121.6 BB
SB: 197.08 BB
BB: 64.6 BB
UTG: 104.92 BB
MP: 76.12 BB
Hero (CO): 103.48 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K A

fold, MP raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 7 BB, fold, fold, fold, MP raises to 22.4 BB, Hero raises to 103.48 BB and is all-in, MP calls 53.72 BB and is all-in

Flop: (153.64 BB, 2 players) 8 T Q

Turn: (153.64 BB, 2 players) Q

River: (153.64 BB, 2 players) A

MP shows 5 5 (Two Pair, Queens and Fives)
Hero shows K A (Two Pair, Aces and Queens)
Hero wins 145.96 BB

I think in a CO vs BTN spot like this, vs a likely fish w/ 88 bbs, I don't mind getting it in pre.

Im putting these kinda guys in diffrent category - Maniac or Clueless.
So I would respect unknown fish 4B a lot more then reg untill he shows up with hands like these. But then he get into new category and I continue to respect other fish 4B.

So first of all, yes you are right and I completely agree.

However, they aren't "bluffing" in your example, they are overplaying their hand. So the villain you played against is just as likely to do that with AJo or KQs--which we love to see--but is the exception and not the rule.

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OK, fair enough. I think I'd have shoved there and make a mistake.

The average Fish is 4betting a little more than half of what GTO is.



Fish CO4BET Range vs BTN 3bet.

Looking at range composition there is a lot of AKo in range, combine that with some lesser hands and still some folding % and we can comfortably shove preflop.