Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
I'm a consistent looser while facing 3bet I'm a consistent looser while facing 3bet

08-07-2015 , 08:18 PM
A few thousand hands later.

I'm feeling really confident now that the downswing in the beginning of the graph was just a negative variance, I'm not sure why the red line is declining so heavily in the beginning though, don't feel like I've increased my aggression in 3bet pots. Anyway I'm confident that its possible to be winning $$$ while facing 3bets. But who knows maybe 82K hands isn't enough...

Could have never imagined that it's possible to be breaking even for 82K hands at 2NL.

I'm a consistent looser while facing 3bet Quote
08-07-2015 , 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerarb
Think defending against 3bets especially in position is what separates the marginal winners from the bosses.

You guys keep talking about what your cards are win rate loss rate gto etc this is the wrong way to think about this situation.

It all comes down to what the other guy is 3betting, how he reacts to 4bs, how that range connects to various textures, and how he's going to play postflop.

Working with flopzilla you can learn that suited connectors have the best flop coverage in the game. You'll have the best "playability" and be able to see multiple streets with different kinds of medium equity. However by the river you'll have the nuts, weak showdown, or nothing. People like scs in 3 bet pots because they can stand heat for multiple streets and against certain villains (ie ones who will be more on honest on the turn or river) you can steal the pot.

Calling a 3b ip with 45s is definitely going to be tougher and probably bad against a maniacal barreling player who shows down a lot. Whereas kqo makes top pair and you can just keep pressing cawl.

Conversely against a guy who is going to 3b and be 1 and done often, scs are awesome since you'll have an easy time floating mid pairs back doors gutters straight draws and fds.

So if you're using your brain in game and face a 3b you should NOT be looking at your cards and saying "I call 3bs ip with X holecard". You should consider how many barrels you will face on which textures, how often you can win on the flop or turn regardless of your hole cards, and how often you believe you will need showdown to win.

This is an extremely hard thing to consistently do well under the "pressure" of playing a big pot against ranges that contain many strong preflop hole cards.
Thanks!!!
Very useful post indeed.
I'm a consistent looser while facing 3bet Quote
08-08-2015 , 10:51 AM
I was a FR player before (up to 25nl), and switched to 6max recently, so I haven't played the lowest limits of 6max. At 2 and 5nl (FR) I didn't defend enough 3bets simply for the reason that people didn't 3bet enough so there was no point defending 60% or so. But on 10nl+ it's mandatory, people will exploit you if you fold too much vs 3bets.

Against a nitty player who folds too much vs a 3b, I'll 3b suited connectors, A2-A5s and stuff like that with huge implied odds + playability postflop. As I said defending your ranges at higher stakes is mandatory.

As a rough guideline you should defend 60% of your opening range, so lets say your opening range is AJs+, AQo+, KQo, KQs, 66+ from UTG for example. Put that in equilab, calculate what 60% of that range looks like. I don't have equilab on this computer, but I guess it's something like JJ+, AQo (AQo is 4bet/fold, JJ-QQ is call, KK+ is 4bet/GII).
I'm a consistent looser while facing 3bet Quote
08-20-2015 , 04:47 PM
Ok I surrender, it's not possible to make facing 3bet positive, but I'm glad I focused on the subject anyway, discovered a lot of new concepts and improved my negative win rate in this spot. Currently I have -97ptbb/100 or -194bb/100 winrate, which makes clear that it's better for me to defend vs 3bets than to fold. I will constantly be looking to improve my game in this spot.

Thank you all who participated in this thread.


Last edited by DatoGio; 08-20-2015 at 05:09 PM.
I'm a consistent looser while facing 3bet Quote

      
m