I wish I had a diamond blocker... - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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I wish I had a diamond blocker...

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08-07-2022 , 06:14 AM

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

Anonymous fast fold tables...

Ignition - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 98.7 BB
BB: 50 BB
UTG: 106.06 BB
MP: 99.64 BB
CO: 105.02 BB
Hero (BTN): 103.98 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A

UTG raises to 3.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (23.5 BB, 2 players) K

UTG checks, Hero bets 7 BB, UTG calls 7 BB

Turn: (37.5 BB, 2 players) 3

UTG checks, Hero bets 21.74 BB, UTG calls 21.74 BB

River: (80.98 BB, 2 players) 4

UTG bets 66.32 BB and is all-in, Hero?

I would snap call with a diamond in my hand, but can I call this donk shove without one?

Thanks for any help!

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08-07-2022 , 09:30 AM

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,374

Well of course it's the best card ever to bluff but I think it's odd for villain to call flop and turn and then decide to turn his value hands into a bluff otr. I would definitely fold this river without any other info - I think you rarely get bluffed in this spot at this stake.

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08-07-2022 , 04:26 PM

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,248

Bigger ott.
I think river is a call. Guys who open 3.5bb+ pre are often crazy fish type of player and this river donk on flush can be anything pretty much.

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08-07-2022 , 04:46 PM

Ramius

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 2,148

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

Bigger ott.
I think river is a call. Guys who open 3.5bb+ pre are often crazy fish type of player and this river donk on flush can be anything pretty much.

3.5bb raise can be anythig, plenty of fish who raise for this size folds to almost every 3bet, and even more ones who call every 3bet.
Fish likes turning hands into bluff on scary runouts, problem here is that there is no reasonable draw that he can call and shove river now without having weaker hand, so i m weak tight here readless

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08-07-2022 , 07:43 PM

boulgakov

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,609

Implying they're a "fish" because of the open size is a bit optimistic. Seems they did put Hero in a tough spot.

I think the donk shove is nice if it's value with a flush, so it also makes a nice bluff. I ever only did it once for value and it worked, I would not try this as a bluff against anyone since it's a very tempting call. I don't play NL25 but think there are far too much weak tight players like myself who will bluff with this line once in a blue moon only -> fold

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08-08-2022 , 06:51 AM

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

These crazy sports bettors on Bonition will sometimes call twice with a pocket pair and shove scary rivers. I have even seen them do it with top pair, weak kicker. I am not sure if this is very common on other sites though.

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08-08-2022 , 06:53 AM

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

Bigger ott.
I think river is a call. Guys who open 3.5bb+ pre are often crazy fish type of player and this river donk on flush can be anything pretty much.

Why do you like to go bigger on the turn? I chose my sizing to try and encourage 77-QQ to stick around thinking that Kx likely calls twice vs. any reasonable sizing.

Thanks for letting me know that you think this is a call even without a diamond blocker. I face these river donk shoves on scare cards like once/night it seems lol.

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08-08-2022 , 06:54 AM

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramius

I was worried that villain might do this with 77-QQ or some goofy small board pair that they somehow have. Would you call with a diamond blocker?

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08-08-2022 , 06:56 AM

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by boulgakov

It's a pretty absurd opening size theoretically, but then again, live regs open to 5x lol. But I do feel like the 3.5x and river donk shove combo somewhat skew villain to being an aggro fish.

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08-08-2022 , 12:48 PM

#10

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unguarded

I mean if you have a population exploit like this then I wouldn't bother posting the hand as this is the most important info. Assuming you have no specific info on a player pool its a fold in theory imo

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08-08-2022 , 01:05 PM

#11

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,541

Very interested in results here for data purposes.

According to MDA this is a call. We call active TPTK hands on 4 straights and mid pair+ when Flush completes.

I know in a SRP this is a snap call but I'm curious if the same holds true in 3BPs.

I'd call this though. This will be a mergey type bluff at a high enough frequency imo.

Let me know how it went!

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08-08-2022 , 01:30 PM

#12

AskZandar

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,710

Did he snap shove the river? It seems like any time that happens it ends up being a flush. if he didn't snap I'd be more likely to want to call.

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08-08-2022 , 01:44 PM

#13

Ramius

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 2,148

If i have to guess villain hand it's 44, 55, 56 or a5, most likely bluff is 67 maybe, just no idea i this villain OR those for 3.5bb, but possible, plenty of fish limp nuts and raise junk

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08-09-2022 , 06:34 AM

#14

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

I was very worried that villain would do this with 77-QQ or even a weak K. I definitely see some of these wild recs pulling these moves here and there. Result incoming.

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08-09-2022 , 06:36 AM

#15

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by AskZandar

Did he snap shove the river? It seems like any time that happens it ends up being a flush. if he didn't snap I'd be more likely to want to call.

If I remember correctly, he took 3-5 seconds to shove. I also find snap shoves scarier. But then again, I also find it scary when they time down to 2 seconds and shove lol.

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08-09-2022 , 06:38 AM

#16

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

Villain had 5s2s for the rivered straight, so he was a wild one for sure. Even though I was "right", I didn't feel good about my decision when I saw it in the replayer. If villain is crazy enough to 3.5x and call 52s UTG, I have top suspect that he was capable of some major spew at any given node.

I did fold. In game time, I just decided that I would call with diamond blockers and fold without one. It seemed reasonable to me until I saw villain's goofy hole cards, lol.

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08-09-2022 , 06:59 AM

#17

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,248

As I said 3.5bb+ open raises are quite often maniacs.

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08-09-2022 , 07:13 AM

#18

Unguarded

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,732

DooDooPoker, you got me curious... I have over 500k hands in my 50 Zone database, so I took a look at this spot. In 29 spots where villain donk shoved the river in a 3bet pot after I cbet twice, villain was nutted 21 times. 3 times, they were strong, but not nutted. 4 were bluffs. And one was a weak merged hand.

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08-09-2022 , 12:44 PM

#19

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,541

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unguarded

Thanks for the data. It could be that this spot doesnt transfer over into 3BP's. In a SRP the c/c/donk line is way over bluffed.

29 hands is too small of a sample to conclude much but it is interesting, thanks for the results.

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