I really dont understand how some players 25nl or more are capable to achieve really big red lines while keeping a break even blue line at zoom and they do this on small samples like 25-30k hands or so. Its impossible to base your plays on reads and specific players with so low sample at zoom.

I have 41k hands at zoom and i barely have enough stats for turn , sometimes i dont even have enough sample on villains for flop let alone river.

How do these players bluff like crazy so profitably without specific reads? some of them say they could do this without huds.

Do they simply see an A-x-x board and say *ok lets fire 3 barrels now to represent top pair and make him fold* , i cant think any other criteria they can use other than vpip/pfr and board texture.

pls enlighten me i really want to understand this part of poker better.

What stakes are you playing?

Well, IMO, I don't think you need 30k hands to make a good and reliable read on your opponents.

I usually do this (on micros) by: Assuming most opponents are weak; Doing aggressive plays most of the time; Trial and error; Making notes on players that somehow made a good play; Marking down fish and other strange types of play; Observing the continuation of a hand after I folded for more information.

But I'm guessing that you already do this.

So basically you are doing what i said , you are profiling the population as players who fold a lot and then run big bluffs on good textures and if you fail you mark them.

I basically do the opposite of this , i profile unknowns as fishy and as players who call too much and i try aggressive plays only with good reads like notes or stats. I start on a session a bit tight then i become aggresive if needed.

Now i get it , red line players default on aggresive mode.

You answered it yourself. Also some people are just some crazy lags.

You don't need a large sample to hand read...Idk, after a few hundred hands vs a player it's pretty easy to peg a lot of their basic habbits/make generalizations. Maybe it is just b/c I'm an MTT guy where we rarely get large samples of more than a few hundred hands on anyone unless they're another grinder and thus have to extrapolate (which is a large part of your winrate).

Past that you just play aggressively/with your reads and insta take notes when your reads are off or the player falls into a different type than you though. And vs fish you're almost always going to be guessing like this a little bit since fish play less often/you won't see the same ones as much. Other posters have mostly covered this, the two cents I wanted to add was mostly just that you don't need that many hands on anyone to get a (+) red line and I don't think there should be a correlation btwn the two.

EDIT: and disclaimer in that I am/was predominantly a MSMTT guy, so my experience this past month playing 75kish hands of zoom cash from 5 -> 50NL isn't exactly a lot. Although I'm doing decently at 50NL -- when I'm not out of it/playing too LAG due to distractions/'tilt' and lack of willpower.

Pretty easy to play like this if you play 30-40% of your hands. In 6max this is easy.