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How to play overcards? How to play overcards?

01-15-2022 , 05:12 PM
I feel like I'm overfolding with my overcards. Whenever I have AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, or something like that and I miss completely on the board, I never know what to do. I feel like I should be calling c-bets or c-bet myself more than I am. Usually I end up checking the flop and either fold to a c-bet on the flop or fold to a lead on the turn if the turn doesn't help me either. Can I get some tips on how to play overcards, should I treat it like a draw? Like on a really dry board treat it as a draw and hope to hit a pair on the turn or river? Any tips would be very appreciated.
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01-15-2022 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesehadd02
I feel like I'm overfolding with my overcards. Whenever I have AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, or something like that and I miss completely on the board, I never know what to do. I feel like I should be calling c-bets or c-bet myself more than I am. Usually I end up checking the flop and either fold to a c-bet on the flop or fold to a lead on the turn if the turn doesn't help me either. Can I get some tips on how to play overcards, should I treat it like a draw? Like on a really dry board treat it as a draw and hope to hit a pair on the turn or river? Any tips would be very appreciated.
I’d say you need to post actual situations. These play very differently depending on position, # of players in the pot, PF action, board texture, etc. Post some actual spots and you’ll then be able to get some specific feedback.
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01-15-2022 , 05:29 PM
If poker was as easy as a sweeping generalisation there would be no games running.
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01-15-2022 , 08:57 PM
like many mention, there are some subcategories here. (i play mostly HU so my ranges may be a bit dif.. but, solver derived logic generally translates across the board, w some minor tweeking) :

i would subclassify OC types, focus on the extreme/obvious patterns, and work your way in.
on the clear and obvious end, some hands like AKdd on DD board may be such good draws you can value bet/,ship

an easy subcategory on the other extreme you can focus on, is, crappy oc like on boards, for example, as kind of a throwaway backdoor draw cbet hand. same with hands that are notably "disconnected" from the board(no combodraw etc), bonus if blocking pf combos of TP[splitting hairs] - you probably won't go too wrong just blindly cbetting them on non-completed flops, as a rule of thumb, youre not wasting much equity.

*** keep in mind , this is secondary to overall frequency/strategy on board types, tho (we may be range checking on 789sss or w.e, so holding OC is little relevance in isolated spots)

so yeah, considering turning ur worst crappers/backdoors into blind cbets

hands that have more marginal equity are generally where lines get blurred.

Last edited by LordPallidan12; 01-15-2022 at 09:07 PM.
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01-15-2022 , 10:20 PM
One observation is that you are talking about being confused when facing a cbet with these hands. Should you be calling cbets more or folding less?

My suggestion is that generally, you should want to be the pre flop raiser with these hands. You probably shouldn’t be calling too many raises with these hands. AK should be a 3 bet the vast majority.

AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, are all trap hands that should be 3 bet or folded. 2 exceptions.
1. If they are suited, I suppose you could take a flyer with them from time to time if you are getting good odds or have good position. But what you are hoping for is to pick up additional equity with a flush draw, NOT to get a lot of money involved with just top pair.
2. If you are not 3 betting, you can call if your hand holds up versus a villains raising range. Against a tight EP raiser these are all folds. Versus others AQ is playable as a call frequently. Sometimes AJ/KQ as well, but I’d still probably prefer to 3 bet or fold these hands as well.
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01-16-2022 , 01:51 AM
You need to figure out what you're doing with your range.

Nobody can think like a solver but if you practice enough you start to group hand categories (of which OPs is one) naturally and can adapt to novel situations as they arise.
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01-16-2022 , 04:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceres
You need to figure out what you're doing with your range.

Nobody can think like a solver but if you practice enough you start to group hand categories (of which OPs is one) naturally and can adapt to novel situations as they arise.
Yup. If you don’t know how often your range is betting, there’s no chance of knowing how often overcards are betting. So focus on which boards are good/bad for you as the aggressor, and thus will naturally give you a better idea of how to play your overcards.

As the defender, one thing to pay attention to is how much 1p villain has. Eg for BTN vs BB, we float way more A high on T72 compared to T92, because BTN has way more 9x than 7x.
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01-16-2022 , 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by keuwai
Yup. If you don’t know how often your range is betting, there’s no chance of knowing how often overcards are betting. So focus on which boards are good/bad for you as the aggressor, and thus will naturally give you a better idea of how to play your overcards.

As the defender, one thing to pay attention to is how much 1p villain has. Eg for BTN vs BB, we float way more A high on T72 compared to T92, because BTN has way more 9x than 7x.
I believe it also has to do with T92 being more dynamic/connected that T72. I would bet that if you ran two sims removing middle pairs from BU's range on each board A-high would still get floated more often on T72. On T92 you should favor hands that coordinate with the board slightly more.
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01-16-2022 , 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by browni3141
I believe it also has to do with T92 being more dynamic/connected that T72. I would bet that if you ran two sims removing middle pairs from BU's range on each board A-high would still get floated more often on T72. On T92 you should favor hands that coordinate with the board slightly more.
Yup, it's about how much equity your Ahigh has. The more connected the board, the less equity you have, which makes Ahigh more of a fold.

Connectivity is not the only factor however, the rank of flop cards also matter. Eg BB is floating way more Khigh on A72 compared to A92, even though both boards are equally disconnected.
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01-16-2022 , 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keuwai
Yup, it's about how much equity your Ahigh has. The more connected the board, the less equity you have, which makes Ahigh more of a fold.

Connectivity is not the only factor however, the rank of flop cards also matter. Eg BB is floating way more Khigh on A72 compared to A92, even though both boards are equally disconnected.
I like this second example better, thanks.
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01-16-2022 , 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by browni3141
I like this second example better, thanks.
Yea I couldn’t think of an example where the floats were overcards lol
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