Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 114.5 BB (VPIP: 31.13, PFR: 26.49, 3Bet Preflop: 17.65, Hands: 156)
BB: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 17.86, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 29)
UTG: 84 BB (VPIP: 35.48, PFR: 3.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
Hero (CO): 105 BB
BTN: 108.5 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 37)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A 8

fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 4 BB

Flop: (10.5 BB, 2 players) 5 4 3
BB checks, Hero bets 7.5 BB, BB calls 7.5 BB

Turn: (25.5 BB, 2 players) 2
BB checks, Hero bets 19 BB, BB raises to 88 BB and is all-in, fold

BB wins 60.5 BB

I feel like a lot of flushes could have been in BB's hand and a better straight beats me. BB is representing a lot of strength. I was playing pretty wildly for a bit to conjure a little action. I suppose he could have been playing overpairs or trips.. but I also don't have any blockers for all the suited cards villian could be playing. I feel like villian picked up the straight with the turn card. I don't have a lot of stats on Villian so maybe it was good that I decided to fold and wait for a better spot.? I feel like this play is sort of break even anyways with how the action went because it just feels close.. But I acknowledge that I'm a noob and I could be completely wrong.

Fold this hand from the CO and don't open greater than 3x unless you are isolating limpers.

As played, check that flop. Bet/folding the river is good.

My thought process was 4x + 1BB per limper to isolate limpers. I c-bet the flop because I just win most of the time when I do. I think villian could have a lot more than flush cards when he calls on the flop so I thought a c-bet would work. I bet again on the turn because my hand improved tremendously and I folded to aggression. On the river, I was going to check behind if villian were to call me on the turn. I'd do this for pot control. I was told heads up, I should usually always c-bet. Should I not c-bet here because the flop is too wet?

Thats... pretty bad advice someone gave you. On this board the majority of time you will have 2 overcards to the board with not great equity. When you opened so big villain is actually meant to be folding a lot of offsuit hands so he will have the flush here more than he normally would. Judging on your smallish sample on villain he has a reasonable idea what hes doing based on his stats so he could even thin valueshove here with a 6 expecting NL2 villains to call him with a random ace here some of the time.

Because your hand is often weak on the flop you want to leverage your position and check a lot to hit a top pair which you can then proceed to call down vs reasonable sized bets.

Your sizing is fine vs limpers... but there were none this hand? You'd also want to have a stronger hand when you iso to actually make some money, limp-folding is pretty nonexistant these days and A8o is actually a pretty bad hand, especially when the pot goes multiway.

I didn't want the pot to go multi-way. I just wanted to steal and then cbet the flop if I got the hand heads up. I've been stealing pots left and right. Sometimes, I'll raise ATC from cut-off and the button. I'm playing small-ball poker.. very aggressive and somewhat loose. I don't remember reading anywhere in the forums where I should raise 3x vs 4x but I know some people vary their raises based on position. I thought 3x raising was for tournaments mostly.

Edit: I also want to mention that we only have 26 hands of so on villian. Is that considered reliable enough for us not to c-bet here?

3x+1 per limper is ok but there are no limpers in this hand.

Read up on cbetting and flop textures. See how other similar hands in this forum played out.

You should not Cbet just because. That is dependent on players, flop textures, position, etc.

Too much to explain in one single post but there are lots of resources out there to learn.

I will definitely read up. I've read so much about it already, though. That's why I'm confused. I know heads up, most people were recommending cbetting. I'll stick to checking three tones, checking multi-way pots, and c-betting two toned flops and dry flops heads up. Does that sound more like standard play vs the average player?

Edit: I'm really going for a solid LAG style here. Any suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Need to play more passively on these mono boards.

Cbet is no bueno (size + combo).

Turn bet is much too big.

Good fold though.

(preflop is not an open)

A couple of fundamental errors in this hand. Please don't take offence to this. I really suggest reading 'The Grinders Manual' (Peter Clarke pdf). Should help you get to grips with the basics in no time

I'll do that right away.

Good man, good luck!

lel
could've swore this was how the hand ended the moment I saw the flop bet

apart from the open size that is too big for online poker and the choice of hands to open from the co, you could bet the flop small 25-33%pot with a reasonably wide range , tho combos with a club are much more obvious bets.

your Ax non club hands would rather keep the pot small, as you are drawing to a weak straight and have some showdown value, but no re-draw to a flush. you can usually defend vs turn probes and see a river for relatively cheap, which is another thing you want with showdown-able hands.

on the turn, your hand becomes a much clearer bet now that you are vbetting a straight. however, the betsize is again too big, especially after betting flop big and thus narrowing your opp's range to stronger hands. the range you might want to bet turn for thin value includes some sets and a lot of combos of Ax.

if you bet large, the following happen: a) v's continuing range is now stronger on average than your vbetting range, so you're essentially bluffing , b) he has an easier, more intuitively correct decision and c) you open yourself up to getting shoved on by flushes

another 25-33%pot bet keeps enough weaker hands in v's range, while allowing you to bet wider

Wow, I'm incredibly thankful for all of the feedback from all of you. Very detailed and helpful. I'm concerned I may have misunderstand the section on opening bets. If I got this right... I'm seeing... 4x + 1 BB per limper from early position.. and you guys are telling me to do 3x + 1 BB per limper from late position.?

EDIT: I've read the posts 4x + 1 BB per limper. I've seen this a lot on the forums. That's why this has me all confused. I'm just wondering now if things changed in the online community.? Perhaps I just misunderstood the 2+2 archives.

Edit: "Conventional wisdom dictates that a 4xBB+1/limper raise is very good at getting the pot heads-up on the flop, which, for most hands, is the optimal number of opponents" (4xBB + 1 per limper... why?, Pokey).

just open to 3bb with a tight-ish range for now, check https://www.pokersnowie.com/preflop-advisor.html
when you iso limpers, I'd reccomend 4bb + 1 per limper

Will do. I really need to get that service. I'm gonna look into that tonight

pre flop ranges are free, click on the start webapp button
free on ios as well
mind you, these are for 2.15bb opens or so, tighten up a bit when you make it 3x
weaker offsuit broadways, small pairs and weakers suited aces (A2,A3,A6,A7) can be cut

I've been thinking this whole time that I should open 4x's each time I bet pre-flop + 1 BB any limpers. It's fundamentally wrong to do this? This site is recommending 2.5 opens. I thought opens less than 3-4 BB would be too weak to get folds when c-betting or to build a pot when value-betting post-flop.

Edit: I just checked another article from the master sticky. Just as I expected, everyone says 4 BB. I've read most of the articles. I've actually re-read through some of the articles 2-3 times and more because I'm trying to perfect my game. I've even read through the comments in many of these articles. That's why I'm just a bit shocked. It's exciting to know there's better actions I can take. Is the master sticky recommendation of 4 BB old news?

Youve clearly understood the main motive of this game; to steal the blinds. To do that as effectively as possible you want to open as small as possible preflop to be able to open more hands, since you are risking less you can open more.

That said to avoid rake you want to open 2.5-3x in the micros to get some folds too. Opening even larger is possible too since people make big mistakes preflop and postflop no matter your opening size and theres money to be made with good hands.

The 4x opens were standard about 10+ years ago. The info you are reading is outdated (unless you're playing live). Between 2x-3x opens are the standard preflop open sizings these days for many reasons, 2.5x probably being the most common. I think using 3x until you get to ~10NL is fine just for the slightly added value/fold equity from the overcalling bad players at the lowest of micro's.

You guys seriously just blew my mind. I've been reading through the archives for like a month. I've been reading almost non-stop. I loved having a slew of information. I read through most of the microstakes master sticky and I've read through some of the anthopology links too! Since this information is old, where can I find the best resource for playing poker? Please help me lol I'll read literally everything. I'm going to check out the pre-flop site when I get home and I'm gonna honestly study that so any other resources you guys have, please drop them here!

EDIT: Is there anything else outdated in the master sticky? I really was studying basically everything. I have probably 20 pages of notes.. no lie :P

^^ Sizings (and some strat) is outdated, but the concepts themselves mostly aren't, probably.

This actually makes A LOT of sense to me now. I just hope people still fear me when I reduce my opening bets. I was fighting everyone left and right for those pots and I've been winning a bunch of them. A lot of that was probably luck/variance too.

I remembered reading in the comments section where someone mentioned that betting heads up was basically always profitable and how you want to basically never c-bet multi-way. I'm not sure where I saw this. Should I avoid c-betting in a heads up pot if the board is very wet like this verses a TAG/LAG? I imagine it's still highly profitable to c-bet on any board vs a nit. And is it still sub-optimal to open limp?

EDIT: Never-mind. I misinterpreted betting head up c-betting. I think I have it figured out now. You don't want to c-bet when the board is all flush cards or all straight cards. Some semi-wet boards (two suited on the flop) are okay to c-bet heads up. Dry boards are free money.

Open limping was never a thing except for the sb.
Unfortunately, poker is not nearly as simple as to say you should always do one thing and never another.
A generalisation that's often true is that it's correct to build the pot with strong hands.