Villain is reg, i had no HUD info, as it was first hand, just this should make me play tighter, checked after hand villain had 7% 3bet, and not very 3bet happy from bb, this alone make every street horrendous, including preflop propably, but in vacuum vs more polar range how bad is this call?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.25/$0.50 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $54.01 (108 bb)
MP: $58.39 (117 bb)
CO (Hero): $75.02 (150 bb)
BU: $50.75 (102 bb)
SB: $43.26 (87 bb)
BB: $50.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with 8♠ 8♣
2 players fold, Hero raises to $1.10, 1 fold, SB calls $0.85, BB 3-bets to $5.75, Hero calls $4.65, 1 fold

Flop: ($12.60) Q♣ 4♥ 7♥ (2 players)
BB bets $3.95, Hero calls $3.95

Turn: ($20.50) 4♣ (2 players)
BB bets $12.86, Hero calls $12.86

River: ($46.22) 3♣ (2 players)
BB bets $27.44 (all-in), Hero calls $27.44

well not much to say about the hand, every street is super marginal

in a vacuum you are not supposed to call squeezes very often

River sucks getting 4-1 and unblocking everything

SB fish can widen vil slightly too

Will see AK and suited broadways blasting here at least sometimes, blocking our Qx hands

wp

Unless there is some pool imbalance that people are blasting here too much, it's a clear fold, can probs fold turn already. I don't think this imbalance exists, I would assume that players probably still tend to underbluff this line.

Given that you're calling vs. squeeze your range will be narrower, meaning your defends are going to be stronger on average. Not that I would call this down even vs. a regular CO open and BB 3-bet.

They don't need to be blasting too much here for this line to be fine, if you're basing this on the pool underbluffing, that's a different story.

it's either based on pool tendencies or theory, both of which I think don't support this line.

But most if not all ak are better calls than 88, no? Can we assume that folks not turn a7 into bluff especially on river, and i m losing to a4s or a4o that a lot of players 3bet at hi freq from bb

in a vacuum you are not meant to flat AK here

and if you know he has 7% 3bet why would you call 3 barrels with A high?

Against a V whose range will have bluffs in it, I think this is okay. Against this particular V whose squeeze range is pretty narrow, it feels like he's living in the land of value.

In theory it's a call a decent % of time, so you're down to pool tendencies.

These paired turns are under bluffed according to MDA so I'd fold.

Also when the FCR (Flush completes river) - these lines are under bluffed.

So this 0 EV spot becomes a losing call. And this assumes optimal preflop stats - if you take into account tighter preflop stats it becomes closer to a punt.

board pairing turn with 4 weakens caller range, removes a lot of outs from most 7x, also if villain have any hi club chances i have a flush on river are very small, becouse we are not floating weak flush draws on paired turns already, i m not talking about this specific villain, as i said already, my hand is close to preflop fold, but hand is more interesting if we assume villain is good aggressive reg for this limit. It could be my leak that i project my own postflop tendencies to majority of population and majority of population have AF closer to 2 than 3. What i m sure is this call would be better vs sb than vs bb, as bb not 3bet ofsuit broadway combos enaugh to find much bluffs, on river especially

How many bluffs do you think villain needs here?

A little over 27% bluffs.

But it's a very underbluffed spot on 2 data points so all our 0 EV bluff catchers just turn into losers.


We should just fold turn.

Interested for result on this one OP

villain had khks

I'm talking about combos.

Taking these very general rules like 'FCR' I think is pretty lazy, I imagine there's a difference between backdoor flushes and flopped FDs too.

Okay ill make sure I list every bluffing combo next time.

Well played all around. Unlucky he had Kings.

Another shortcut, nice.

Saying wp as a response but I'm lazy.

Solid logic

Really unlucky he had those Kings.

4 combos of ackx, 4 combos axkc, 1 of each 4 total(1/4 time 3bet) of acjx, axjc, kxqx, qckx, we have to add some a regs with A club
Is villain is bluffing all busted hearts or bluffing all heartless broadway offsuit combos?
Villain dont have that many flushes actully, just aj-akcc, maybe sometimes atcc, few wheel aces as turn and river and hero hand block some weaker ones

the turn is a fold in solverland a huge amount of the time (looks like very close to 100% with a club although strangely it doesnt mind having a heart). the only argument i can really come up for trying to call down here is the sb flat so maybe hes overdoing it squeezing bc i've found people generally under3b from bb. the people telling you this is a standard calldown bc of theory just arent simming it imo. you also don't really want to be adding a ton of pure bluffcatchers with little equity to your range here as there's still another street to play and you are essentially capped / bluff catching anyways. adding more hands than you need to in those scenarios seems pretty dumb bc like doodoo said you end up in these multi street ev loss games.

Not talking about comments on a thread...

You usually give good advice but calling turn/river is a significant negative EV play.

Can't win em all.