With the world serries coming up and im sure a bunch of you idiots gonna come to vegas thinking you are the best and wanting to prove it. can i please give a little advice.

if you know the correct play at a poker table is it that important to let everyone else know you know?

i want to see that hand its my right, well lets see, i want to see that hand so people can laugh at the guy whoo made the bad call, so he can be embarassed and either quit or will think about his play and improve?

i started playing online poker 6 or more years ago. there used to be 4-5 full games on every sight at the highest limits, now when you look there is maybe one, two if the soft spot is playing 2 tables. yes alot of this has to do with the new law but alot also has to do with behavior and mannerism of the players, customer service as i call it.

guys would laugh at people in chat at the table call them idiots fish tell them how bad there play is then explain why. hmmmm i dont know about you but if a guy gonna make a mistake vs me im gonna keep letting him.

if someone is playing poker for fun let them have fun, they dont need to be told by some snot knosed brat wearing a pocket protector how -ev there play was.

in vegas you have tons of rich buisnessmen who enjoy playing poker, they are looking to have fun. they are succesfull in life, some verry the last thing they wanna hear is you telling them how bad they are. or why that play was so bad. they will either quit playing or stop gambleing but nothing good come from it.

foxwoodsfiend wrote this after a discussion i had with him hes a little more of a writer then me...

My private email to Krantz about the game I played the other day and the ensuing conversation I had with Viffer about the game got me to thinking about the importance of saying as little as possible about what goes on in poker in general. Even though I don’t think that my posts have at all come close to naming names or offending anybody, the fact that my email to Krantz was made public has got me thinking about how much can go wrong and get out between all the blogs and message boards that are easily accessible on the internet.

Perkyshmerky’s losses are made public by some people who play in his NYC games and his parents cut him off his trust. Guy Laliberte is outed as the biggest loser in online poker history and is embarrassed and starts changing screen names (and getting coaching). I post that Kenny’s game is going down on Saturday and maybe some nit beats us to the punch putting himself on every waiting list in the Bellagio poker room to make sure he gets a seat. I talk about hands that went down and one of the players from the game reads it, thinks about my analysis, and is better equipped to play against me (and everybody) in the future.

So long story short: as much as I try entertaining you guys on this blog and letting you know what’s going on with my life, I think I need to start self-censoring. The risk of outing players who don’t want to be outed, making them think about their game, or getting offended by what I write is just too great to outweigh the benefits of a slightly better blog. I think other online poker players might want to exercise similar discretion in the future: if you know who “Seda1″ or some other random guy is, do you really need the internet to know that you know? I could make a laundry list of things I’ve known but kept quiet over the years, and I encourage people to think about what they’re accomplishing by posting too much revealing gossip in online forums. I don’t think I did anything wrong, but it’s definitely possible that even in my milquetoast and bland description of the players and the way the game went I might have made a mistake in judgment.



so this was the chat after a 200-400 game on stars today. one guy quit and 8 people sat out, pretty bad in its self there how much -ev could be playing a few rounds after he leaves? consider that to how much ev you loose if he never plays again or decides that 1$ 2$ is the same fun as 200-400.





ADZ124: bla the party is over huh
ADZ124: what a shame
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refaelamit: who was the costumer
ADZ124: hes from my city
ADZ124: steve harris
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refaelamit: very bad
refaelamit: is he worse then me
ADZ124: lol
ADZ124: dude
ADZ124: he calls
ADZ124: 15k
ADZ124: after 2 ppl call
ADZ124: on river
ADZ124: 2 2 5 QQ
ADZ124: with 33
ADZ124: after 2 ppl call..
ADZ124: 15k on river..
ADZ124: reriase of 6k on turn
ADZ124: with 33..
refaelamit: cold deck
refaelamit: does he play often
ADZ124: recently
ADZ124: yes
refaelamit: is he some rich buisness
deanrover6: guys
deanrover6: you think it's a good idea
ahh_snap: adz
deanrover6: to talk about a guy
ahh_snap: come on
deanrover6: when he can see chat
ADZ124: ok
ADZ124: ill be quiet
refaelamit: if he is watching the table he sees 9 people sitting out right after he quits

its pretty sickening...



when chip and doyle played poker in bobbys room with non pros alot of conversation was about vacationing, hunting in montana, happy things to make people have fun!!

i wounder why.


i hope you all die in a grease fire.

Hellmuth berates players and makes more money than anyone in live poker.

I think that this clearly proves that berating players is +EV and Viffer's entire argument is flawed.

By not making fun of the rich fish, getting them riled up and coming after you, you are losing EV.

That said, "LOLOLOLOLLO STEVE_HARIS OMG WTF HAHAHAHA 33 HAHAHA LOL"

agreed obv

*edit* with viffer

I just want to note that while the current generation of players dont seem to get it, I have heard way too many Viffer anecdotes about treating fish poorly to suggest the "*****" comments are warranted.

I am 100% on Viffers side. The game of poker entails far more then knowing the fundamentals of the game. It is beyond game selection. Past bankroll management. Bigger then reading people (whether it be timing tells, body language or all of the above). It is superior to controlling your tilt and emotions. Larger then keeping the customer happy and coming back. It is all of that combined and then some. If any of the variables are out of whack your poker game won't be as strong and in some cases you can go from a favorite to a dog by simply ignoring the importance what entails playing poker...

viffer- i think this is adz specific at least on stars

hey viffer does correct poker ettiquete include not threatening to take them into the vegas desert and killing them?

good post

groundbreaking stuff.

people under 100lbs with a mouth like a pittbulldont count, i still might slap you kid....... if you took a shower more often and didnt play so tight i wouldnt treat you like the maggot you are.

lol that was a pretty good comeback

I agree completely, but vif I did see you berate a fish pretty badly at a 50-1 table in commerce. It was that egyptian guy who kept talking about watches.

viffer clearly has no etiquette, he just wants to make the games the most profitable for him in vegas by making this P.S.A. to the nerds with the pocket protectors telling them to not alienate the whales.

agree with the OP 100%, that chat today was ridiculous as is everyone sitting out instantly. Can you guys really not play like 2 more orbits? If you're playing at a casino and the fish in the game leaves do you just follow him out the door?

WAS THAT THE GUY THAT WANTED TO TALK ABOUT MY WATCH? i lost 1.2in la last time, maybe if i was nicer to the guy it would of been different. do as i say not as i do

1. I really doubt that steve_haris is noticing that the game is breaking after he leaves table. I think he clearly "xs" out of the table.

2. I think that if you weren't a multimillionaire poker superstar, and one of the several people in the game, pooling together money/selling off action/taking a shot because of the obviously very profitable conditions with the huge idiot in the game, you wouldn't "play another 2 orbits on principal." I know if I bought action of someone in that game and I would definitely not want any action after Steve left, and you are only one of the few people that can play 40knl on your own.

All debates on this topic are ridiculous because everyone at the end of the day cares about their own bottom line. If they believe that berating the fish/not berating the fish/doing w/e they want will make them the most money, they will do it.

talking **** is fun sometimes and its not about growing up its about having some fun and if you dont have fun in life then you must be miserable.

If the problem was that some people thought being an ******* to the fish was the most profitable play and some people thought not being an ******* was better then you'd be right. But the problem is that some people are too stupid, immature, and inherently *******-like to realize that they are acting against their own best interests. Pointing this out to them is worthwhile.

vif, takin a shower or two might help keep the fish at the table as well

Also, vif, ADZ is an exceptional case, most online players don't do **** like that.

idk, hellmuth has probably made more money than anyone out of poker and he berates people, so it would be kind of foolish to think that the metagame involving berating the fish is automatically -EV.

I agree with you, but doesn't that mean I should hate this website/publication as well? I agree with your point, but isn't 2+2 the most guilty party in the spreading of poker knowledge? I could be way off....just thought it was an interesting take.

yea, he has them chained down to a tournament table where they can't leave or if they did it would just benefit him more.

stealth that is a ridiculous argument. yes there is the one case, that doesn't mean that overall its not ******ed.

also, phil makes most of his poker money from poker "business"

Fair enough, but I think if a lot of the whale's get berated there first response isn't "this isn't fun let me leave!" Its, "let me go after this punk, I'll show him!" And that would definitely result in profit for sure if the idiot is looking to play pots with you.

I'd for sure want Steve_Haris to be playing all the pots in the world with me if I was at his table.

There is just no way to say cut and dry that being lovey dovey with the fish, talking about hunting in montana is the most +EV way to hold yourself at the poker table.

In a lot of cases, I'd imagine its much more profitable to make the fish hate you and want to beat you. And most of the time they are too ignorant/dumb/degenerate to actually improve their game/see their mistakes if you point it out.