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Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots
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05-19-2022 , 12:15 PM
#1
Tamol
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adept
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Do you guys ever fold overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots? I am a massive station with an overpair to the board in 3bet or 4bet pots and am looking for ways to improve.

I just find it really hard to fold when I have an overpair and it's affecting my winrate.

It's happened like 3x today, see below for one example.

    PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
    Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

    BTN: $27.31 (109.2 bb)
    SB: $38.15 (152.6 bb)
    BB: $27.59 (110.4 bb)
    UTG: $58.56 (234.2 bb)
    Hero (MP): $52.09 (208.4 bb)
    CO: $25.93 (103.7 bb)

    SB posts $0.10, BB posts $0.25

    Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has J J
    UTG raises to $0.70, Hero raises to $2.25, CO raises to $5.50, 4 folds, Hero calls $3.25

    Flop: ($12.05, 2 players) 2 3 8
    Hero checks, CO bets $2.65, Hero calls $2.65

    Turn: ($17.35, 2 players) 8
    Hero checks, CO checks

    River: ($17.35, 2 players) 6
    Hero checks, CO bets $17.78 and is all-in, Hero calls $17.78

    Spoiler:
    Results: $52.91 pot ($2.00 rake)
    Final Board: 2 3 8 8 6

    CO shows A A: (Two Pair, Aces and Eights)
    (Pre 80%, Flop 92%, Turn 95%)

    Hero shows J J: (Two Pair, Jacks and Eights)
    (Pre 20%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)

    CO wins $50.91


    Any tips for folding an overpair?
    Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Quote
    05-19-2022 , 01:27 PM
    #2
    Koss
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    These are always pretty sucky spots no matter what. If you have a solver these are good hands to practice through them (especially since low SPR pots compute much faster). Generally your hand is a 0EV bluff-catcher, and the solver will mix call/fold at some frequency. But you can play around with Villain's ranges a bit to see how that changes it. If it's a mixed 0 EV spot, the next step is to look for any HUD stats that might tip your decision one way or another.
    Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Quote
    05-19-2022 , 01:45 PM
    #3
    Haizemberg93's Avatar
    Haizemberg93
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    Folding op in 4b pots won't influence your WR in any significant way. Unless board is super connected and/or mono it's fine to stack off most of the times.
    Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Quote
    05-19-2022 , 03:49 PM
    #4
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haizemberg93
    Folding op in 4b pots won't influence your WR in any significant way. Unless board is super connected and/or mono it's fine to stack off most of the times.
    Does it make a difference in the example hand since we're facing a cold 4b range?
    Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Quote
    05-19-2022 , 04:59 PM
    #5
    MartL's Avatar
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    Any reads on the villains? I cant imagine many people going to be 4betting light against an UTG open and a MP raise. Id just fold after the CO raises and feel pretty good about it.
    Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Quote
    05-19-2022 , 05:04 PM
    #6
    Koss
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newguyhere
    Does it make a difference in the example hand since we're facing a cold 4b range?
    If you start with the assumption that the average 4-bet range is QQ+/AK then it really doesn't matter if it's cold or not. Where that matters is we are much less incentivized to continue if we are the original raiser because our pot odds aren't as good and we are staring down 2 uncapped ranges. I haven't seen any GTO solver based cold 4-bet ranges, but my guess would be they are slightly stronger than what the UTG 4-bet might look like vs. a CO 3-bet or whatever, but I'm not sure. I think using QQ+/AK as a rough baseline is pretty good though.
    Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Quote
    05-20-2022 , 03:58 AM
    #7
    Tamol
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Koss
    These are always pretty sucky spots no matter what. If you have a solver these are good hands to practice through them (especially since low SPR pots compute much faster). Generally your hand is a 0EV bluff-catcher, and the solver will mix call/fold at some frequency. But you can play around with Villain's ranges a bit to see how that changes it. If it's a mixed 0 EV spot, the next step is to look for any HUD stats that might tip your decision one way or another.
    Thanks, I've since looked this one up and I should actually be folding vast majority of the time pre. Cold 4betting ranges are pretty strong, the only thing I could be ahead of really is AK and maybe some AQs, but a lot of the pool won't even cold 4bet AQs.

    I also always just call, should start mixing like you suggest.
    Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Quote
    05-20-2022 , 04:42 AM
    #8
    Tamol
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haizemberg93
    Folding op in 4b pots won't influence your WR in any significant way. Unless board is super connected and/or mono it's fine to stack off most of the times.
    But it seems as though a lot of the pool play quite tight with QQ/JJ and I play quite loose, fairly often in a 3b/4b pot when I have JJ/QQ they show up with an overpair, whereas rarely when I have AA/KK does someone call down with JJ/QQ.

    Not wanting to sound like a victim, just my observation so it feels as though it's affecting my WR. I've never had it where I stack an underpair 4x in a day, but I've had a fair few days where I lose 4 stacks with JJ/QQ/KK to an overpair. If that makes sense
    Folding Overpairs to the board in 3b/4b pots Quote
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