I've been on ACR for about 25k hands and pretty break even for my stats - doing PLO and Holdem.

I think I am playing vs a bunch of bots - as some of these guys i'm playing with are always on - are around top 100 in The Beast promotion in the NL25 pool and looking back at their hands, it doesn't like they make any mistakes at all.

Top 100 in the beast will pay around $250 - $500 a week in promotion money.

The only GTO I study is the pre-flop solver I get from pokercoaching.

One of my issues i've had on the site, is I will go like 1-2k hands with out having a winning show down hand. So I'm not sure if I need to bluff more, or if i'm just running extremely poor, but I was up about 12 buy ins than lost it back down to break even, than back up again, and than down again - so I am basically winning because of rakeback, and beast promo money, which is a complete waste of time if you wanna make money, but it's fun so I like to do it. I think i'm up like $200-$300 over 25k -30k hands which is just all rakeback and promo money. I try and do 500 hands a day (which takes about an hour or 2), but sometimes i'll grind out a 3k hand session which I rarely do because it eats up the whole day. (I try and get the $50 beast promo each week - it only requires 1700 points and about $100 of rake - you can get it really fast if you play Omaha- playing any more past that doesn't seem worth it as the next reward is $100 and you need a lot more points - maybe 5000)

So i'm considering signing up for one or the other. The only time I use GTO-wizard is my daily free hand, and i'm very limited knowledge with piosolver, although I did join their discord, and they seem helpful. Not sure if their is any PLO solvers, but if anyone has any info on that - that would be cool too.

The classic unbeatable 25nl bots on ACR?

Make it make sense.

To your question, GTO Wizard is a lot better if you want to save a bunch of time and know you are getting accurate ranges.

I wouldn't say they are unbeatable, but they certainly don't make as many mistakes as other sites.

Also I mean, you have to play all day long to get top 100 in the beast. That is really hard to do at NL25 - maybe they are mass multi-tabling NL50 and NL100???

I guess there is no way to buy GTO wizard, you need a monthly sub?

Which sub should I get?

Looks like Premium - but not sure

Try out cheapest version first, you can pay the diffrence and get higher level subscription if you need to

I get GTO Wizard premium cash and MTT premium. I don't pay for the custom AI stuff. Occasionally when I want to solve a postflop spot with different ranges or atack depths than GTO Wizard's spots allow, I look a WASM postflop which is a free online solver you can Google pretty easily.

I think what DDP is getting at is that 25NL blitz on ACR should be very beatable. But yes I think the players there are on average tougher than alternative sites like Ignition.

That said, it's probably very hard to be a winning player at 25NL Blitz without some solver work. Most of the regs probably have decent ranges preflop even if they are missing the mark on some stuff. And even a small amount of familiarity with postflop solver play probably gives them a decent edge.

Maybe more so at 50NL Blitz, but the ones that are winning and putting in huge volume probably live in low cost of living areas where they might make decent money compared to some of their available job prospects. South America, Eastern Europe, etc. So it's still not easy for the average person to hop in and beat 25NL against players who have studied with solvers and have put in a million+ hands in recent volume even if someone who is beating 200NL could hop in and win 25NL at a very high rate.

I generally play at the casino - but I like the challenge. The casino is really easy to beat. I Maybe i'm running real bad online, which is possible (I rarely win at showdown) but to me it seems like a lot of my competition isn't making that many mistakes.

I figured i'd study more GTO to help?

You might be running bad online, but it is fairly normal for someone to win at live poker without doing any solver work and lose at 25nl online. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the winning 25nl players have done at least some solver work and almost all the players who don't work with solvers are losing. Even a fair amount of guys that do solver work are still probably losing at 25nl, but I think more and more studying with solvers in some fashion is the bare minimum.

Neither.

Money isn't really an issue - but I don't want to waste it, or my time studying something that won't help. I suppose this is a pretty good idea though.

Why is NL25 so much more difficult? Even if you win at it, you aren't making much per hour. At least at 2/5 live poker you can get to $50 an hour with pretty minimal work. What are the chances i'm just getting cheated by bots? I still don't get how someone can hit top 100 in The Beast promo, and sits at NL25 - that makes no sense to me. You need to play like 30-40k hands a week or 6k hands a day.

Great - so what do you use?

I use PT4 and I study hands I mark as review during each session. I consider myself an avid recreational player and I find piosolver a bit complex for me to even begin to learn how to use. I downloaded the software, but never really messed around with it.

I would get a premium subscription so you can see coaching videos and aggregated reports. They have some free videos/reports/AI solves if you want to judge how useful they'll be.

ACR is an international pool so there's some professionals playing even 10nl.

ACR/BCP are the most difficult games I have ever played in from 2nl to 2NL. You have to stay mentally on point, or the regs there will eat you up. After putting in 6 years on that site, I moved on. Best decision I ever made.

You can continue to cut your teeth against probably the toughest competition in the world, or you can move on to an easier site, learn basic fundamental preflop strategy along with some solid board texture fundamentals, you should be able to sustain a good win rate.

Well I am technically winning, but just with rakeback and promos. I've paid around $800 in rake, so my $600 starting buy in is like $800-$1000. I $1050 was my high point, and $750 was my low point, it just kinda fluxes around there, but no way is it worth it to make $$$. I just kinda like grinding when i'm at home.

I did play a session the other day where I went up 3 buy ins pretty quick, took a break, came back and went down 9 buy ins - with out really winning a hand. So that was a little fishy to me, but meh. I was chasing the beast promo - and needed 300 more points to get the $50 and oh man. Looking back at my hands - I lost 3 flips - got set over set 2 times, and had my Omaha AATJ cracked by A597 AIPF so i mean, all in like 1500 hands. Rest of the money lost was from bomb pots - and just not connecting at all. I did manage to win 3 buy ins back, but still ended the day down.

I'm gonna keep trying though, cuz I think it's kinda fun, and if other people are winning on there, i'm sure it can be done. I do honestly think i'm playing against bots though, but meh.

To my knowledge the acr bots are banned.
Players at 25nl are making tons of mistakes

Sure - I get a few players from time to time, but a lot of the regs seem pretty good.

I agree that they got rid of the bots. Still, the regs are quite good. The quality in play across 10nl and 25nl is about the same. 50nl, blitz in particular, is where the disparity really kicks in, at least from what I recall 16 months ago. Maybe that's changed.

Best of luck to you, for real. Any positive wr on ACR over a couple million hands, particularly at 50nl and above before rakeback, is quite impressive IMHO.

GTO is poker. There is no dichotomy. Just buy a cheap solver like gto+ and take a few days to learn it from the countless instruction videos available. If GTO theory is hard to understand, and it is, read Andrew Brokos' Play Optimal Poker which does a decent job of making the logic palatable to non math wiz folk. This is all readily available to most people for <$100

All the players that succeeded pre solvers were all using GTO, whether they knew it or not. When people say **** GTO they are talking out of their arse

From a perspective of anyone who understands what GTO preflop and flop play generally looks like, most of the 25nl regs are mediocre at best. They def aren’t bleeding like fish, but they’re rarely good enough to have any kind of significant pre-rb winrate (say &gt;2bb/100)

They can usually figure out opening ranges, but their 3b/4b/5b ranges tend to be off, and pretty significantly in some spots. And most of them don’t really study flop sims either and just auto 1/3 everywhere. So you can def exploit them if you really look into it

But I would still suggest exploring other options if you have them, ACR is for sure the toughest site out there

Well i'm just kinda trying to beat it at this point. I can go to my local casino and print if I need to make some extra cash. I average 10bb an hour at the local casino over many many hours, but i'm kinda looking for a challenge with out bleeding my bankroll. I only play online once or twice a week.

But you are right, perhaps I should just move to another site. ACR is one of the shadier sites out there. Wouldn't be surprised if i've been cheated a few times.