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COTW: I HAZ TOPPEST PAIR! COTW: I HAZ TOPPEST PAIR!

08-26-2010 , 07:07 PM
With regards to getting it in w AJ on J72, say we get c/r, we reraise and villain re-reraise 3x (assuming stacksizes are 100 and at this point villain still has a healthy amount behind), do we shove here? wouldnt we only fold out worse if villain had TT?

*i think in 10nl, a c/r on J72 is usually JJ/77/22...
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08-26-2010 , 08:32 PM
Solid post!
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08-27-2010 , 08:36 AM
Nice post, thanks
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08-27-2010 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrvana
With regards to getting it in w AJ on J72, say we get c/r, we reraise and villain re-reraise 3x (assuming stacksizes are 100 and at this point villain still has a healthy amount behind), do we shove here? wouldnt we only fold out worse if villain had TT?

*i think in 10nl, a c/r on J72 is usually JJ/77/22...
I wouldn't advise getting it all in against an unknown with TPTK, as we are probably dominated. But on some boards against some villains (and not just fish, but winning regs) I will happily ship AJ on a Jxx board.
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08-27-2010 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aadb
If you play AJo like that, it should be profitable to raise from UTG at least up to 10nl.
I actually don't play AJo much at all, let alone EP.
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08-27-2010 , 10:34 PM
I stopped playing AJo and KQo UTG.

well unless im tilting...
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08-28-2010 , 06:00 AM
Great post Sammy-G.
Enjoyed reading and learning.
Just a quick question...

Quote:
Hero bets 4BB, UTG+1 calls. The rest folds
Pot is 9BB

Flop comes J 7 2
Not a lot of hands that will continue with us that we beat. We probably can collect 1 bet if villain thinks we are auto cbetting here, but two bets would be overrepping our hands against an unknown.
I would probably b/f against most villains on the flop and turn. Since we do have an equity lock, I prefer to bet now and then see if we can get more money on later streets if we hit two pair from someone floating us. Even if we did hit two pair, I don’t want to put a lot of my stack in the middle. I would bet fold for 5BB here.
What do you mean by "equity lock"?
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08-28-2010 , 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD
I actually don't play AJo much at all, let alone EP.
As long as you don't overplay it, I think it can be a profitable hand in EP. Over my last 160k hands of 50NL, I got AJo in EP 398 times and showing a 63.90$ profit (65.92$ EV adjusted). I don't know if that's a big enough sample to say anything but so far, AJo has been an ok opening hand in EP for me.

Last edited by NDHand; 08-28-2010 at 09:57 AM.
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08-29-2010 , 04:07 AM
Very nice post Sammy-G!
I have the same question as will_purity, what do you mean by equity lock?
and you talk about "floating oop", is it the same move as cold calling oop?
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08-29-2010 , 02:02 PM
good one!
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08-29-2010 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDHand
As long as you don't overplay it, I think it can be a profitable hand in EP. Over my last 160k hands of 50NL, I got AJo in EP 398 times and showing a 63.90$ profit (65.92$ EV adjusted). I don't know if that's a big enough sample to say anything but so far, AJo has been an ok opening hand in EP for me.
+1
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08-29-2010 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evs215
+1
As a point of reference, my biggest loss in 1 hand with AJo in EP is 29$ and my biggest win 20$ (50NL). Most wins come from getting 2 streets out of modest holdings or check/calling against aggro players.

Last edited by NDHand; 08-29-2010 at 06:13 PM.
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08-30-2010 , 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD
Hero is UTG with A J
Hero bets 4BB, UTG+1 calls. The rest folds
Pot is 9BB

Flop comes J 7 2
Not a lot of hands that will continue with us that we beat. We probably can collect 1 bet if villain thinks we are auto cbetting here, but two bets would be overrepping our hands against an unknown.
I would probably b/f against most villains on the flop and turn. Since we do have an equity lock, I prefer to bet now and then see if we can get more money on later streets if we hit two pair from someone floating us. Even if we did hit two pair, I don’t want to put a lot of my stack in the middle. I would bet fold for 5BB here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by will_purity
What do you mean by "equity lock"?
I read that as follows: We are either way ahead or way behind, meaning that who is ahead now will probably be ahead on the turn as well; moreover we are probably ahead.

Maybe Sammy can clarify this.
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08-30-2010 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by will_purity
Great post Sammy-G.
Enjoyed reading and learning.
Just a quick question...



What do you mean by "equity lock"?
I have an Ace, so hands like AQ,AK that hit won't out draw me (much), and those are the only hands that I will pick up equity against on later streets.
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08-30-2010 , 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexking
Very nice post Sammy-G! ... and you talk about "floating oop", is it the same move as cold calling oop?
To float the flop is to call a bet with a possibly inferior hand or a draw with the intent of bluffing on a later street. For example, one might call an apparent cbet on the flop (float the flop) with the intent of taking the pot on the turn or river.

I for one would also appreciate some more explanation on the term fold equity.
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08-30-2010 , 08:56 PM
I tried to edit my post too late. Great post, Sammy!

Oops. I just read my first post. I know what fold equity is. I meant that I'd also appreciate further information regarding equity lock. Thanks.
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08-31-2010 , 12:02 PM
What a good read and thoughts, thanks for taking your time to write this!!
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09-01-2010 , 08:22 AM
but what about when things go wrong regarding board texture? In the real world it's rare for both the turn and river to be such clear cut bricks.

Also what about multiway? Really nice post, but it ends after just covering the simplest (& idealistic) situations - any chance of taking it further?

Last edited by Meteoric; 09-01-2010 at 08:23 AM. Reason: realised OOP was covered a bit, so removed that
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09-01-2010 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteoric
but what about when things go wrong regarding board texture? In the real world it's rare for both the turn and river to be such clear cut bricks.

Also what about multiway? Really nice post, but it ends after just covering the simplest (& idealistic) situations - any chance of taking it further?
without going into a lot of theory, and just sticking with the basic principles for uNL, here are my thoughts;

When the board texture gets bad we have too options; we can cut bait and surrender the pot, or we can use the board to our advantage and turn our hand into a bluff. This really comes down to reads/feel of the opponnent. Many times weaker villains will see the board is scary and be happy to get to showdown cheaply. Others villains like to play draws, so if a draw hits, they most likely have you beat. Others are playmasters, and while they may not have a made hand they will use the board against you. So a monster is in their range, but also a large amount of air is also. I suggest getting flopzilla and working threw some ranges and see how equity changes on each street.

Now as far as multiway pots, the general concept is that at the micro levels, people play close to the vest (ABC poker). One thing to keep in mind that in multiway pots, the pot is bloatted, so we are threaten stacks more easily. Like everthing we have to consider the villains and their ranges and make inform decisions, and realize we will be committed (and they will be committed) with maybe just one bet. There are multi way pots, where I held AK on a Kxx board, and my plan has been to b/f if UTG+1 calls/raises because his continuation range mostly has me crushed, but if MP calls/raise I am fist pumping call/shoving.

I've also had AK and hit TPTK with 3 strong opponents behind me and a super nasty board, and decided to c/f because I couldn't determine at the time a profitable way to play the hand.
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09-01-2010 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD

I've also had AK and hit TPTK with 3 strong opponents behind me and a super nasty board, and decided to c/f because I couldn't determine at the time a profitable way to play the hand.
Profitable play = stand up, find new table
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09-02-2010 , 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrvana
With regards to getting it in w AJ on J72, say we get c/r, we reraise and villain re-reraise 3x (assuming stacksizes are 100 and at this point villain still has a healthy amount behind), do we shove here? wouldnt we only fold out worse if villain had TT?

*i think in 10nl, a c/r on J72 is usually JJ/77/22...
at 5nl they donk all the time, ez fold
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09-05-2010 , 03:39 PM
Great post, Sammy.

This CotW isn't yet indexed. I'm hoping that this bump is all right with the mods.
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09-05-2010 , 09:46 PM
Thanks SammyG, great post on TPTK play and good illustrations for the 4 considerations.
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09-06-2010 , 12:17 AM
glad you guys like it
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09-19-2010 , 09:22 PM
Would love to see a 2nd part of this, dealing with TPTK hands in difficult situations (e.g., when your CB gets raised or check-raised and such). Also, a discussion of how to approach these situations differently depending on how good the TPTK is (e.g., AK on an A-high flop vs. AJ on a J-high flop).
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