I've been going over some more spots in SBvsBB but I just want to take one hand and really dig into how we can develop a robust strategy.

1) First thing you need is an RNG. There's no way around it. SBvsBB has way too many mixes to not RNG - we don't have to get the frequencies exact but we do need some way of deciding whether to choose one action or the other.

2) We want to try to play as close to GTO as possible OTF/OTT. Our biggest deviations should come on the street where the hand is over after we deviate. That way we don't have to worry about balancing our massive deviations on future streets.

Let's get to the hand.

SB opens 3xBB, we call in the BB. (I'm going to assume you know preflop ranges here)

Flop comes 992

First information to process - what should SB's sizing and frequency be here? (Side note - Some people play a range cbet/range X strategy from the SB in SRP but we won't get into that here).

As BB we need to know this so we can figure out our strategy and see how to react to a bet.

This one is relatively easy - it's a 1/3 sizing for around 50% frequency. Easy enough.

SB elect's to cbet 1/3 - How should we react as BB?

Here is where we need to figure out a rough guideline.

It's a 3 step process but it can be done very quickly.

1) What's our calling range?
2) What's our raising range?
3) What's our folding range?

Let's get the folds out of the way first:

We are folding any non Ace high hands without a FD/BDFD/Good BDSD. All pairs/FDs/BDFDs continue. Easy enough. K8 ? You're going into the trash bin. KT? Okay you can stay because there's a lot of good turns for you.

What about K8o? Continue with the combos and ditch the rest.

This turn's out to be about 25% of our range we fold. We continue with 75% of it.

Now we know we are either going to call or raise with the remaining 75%. Let's try to figure out how to split this.

20% of our range raises
55% of our range calls.

You are just going to have to memorize this stuff, SBvsBB isn't easy but it's not impossible either.

Let's figure out what we are doing with our Flush Draws. This is where we need an RNG.

I'm going to split the FD's into 2 categories.

1) 50% raise/50% call
2) 20% raise/80% call

You guys can split it however you want but you need to split it somehow.

Let's start with Ace high FDs - most of these have decent SDV so they want to raise less. Let's stick them in the 20% raise category.

Next is King High FDs - these have less SDV but are still very strong. Let's raise these 50% of the time.

Same with Queen high/Jack high/Ten high FDs. Those are 50% raise.

Once we start getting to the lower FD's like 7 high/6 high. We revert back to the 20% raise.

So our Ace highs and 8 high or lower FD's will be 20% raised/80% called.

The rest will be split 50/50. Easy enough.

I think that is enough for now since this post is already somewhat long. This was just as much for me as it was for you - I'm just starting to develop robust flop strategies and typing it out like this helped me think about it some more.

Thanks for reading.

Definitely a lot to digest, but excellent information, thanks for putting that together and sharing. I think categorizing spots like this in your head can really help simplify spots in game and also give your more confidence when you already know a general strategy to take.

Just play the way that you think is most profitable for your hand. It's that easy. No one knows what your ranges look like, so using RNG seems just absurd to me. You may aswell let your dog make plays for you.

GTO doesn't matter. If you think raising Q8o on that 992 board is going to be +EV for whatever reason, just go for it.

Yeah in the beginning everything is hard. If we drill spots like this enough it will just become second nature and we won't have to think too hard about it.

I'm assuming the mid stakes/high stakes crushers could just look at this spot and immediately know how to react. We will get there!

Depends who you are playing against. At the micros and small stakes you can always get away with that mindset and I agree you should go HAM.

If you ever see a world class player play small stakes - they are usually an absolute maniac because people have no clue what their range is and just get run over.

But I'm talking about training to play mid and high stakes, guys who actually know what is going on.

I don't want to play small stakes forever.

I've talked to a bunch of guys who crush 1knl/2knl on ignition and they all use RNGs for SBvsBB. I didn't just pull this out of my as.s

I hear ya! I didn’t come back into poker after years away to just grind 50NL. I want to get the knowledge and approach to these spots much more learned to at some point be able to take shots up the ladder.

Preach it brother

I agree that you don't have to randomize to basically like 500nl stars/GG + or 2knl ignition+, but if you want to learn it and it interests you it can't do much harm UNLESS you use the randomizer as a crutch for your thought process. IE you don't know what to do with a hand so you roll it and get a high number so bet, even if it's a terrible hand to bet. But if your fundamentals are down in that sense can be helpful, although seems overkill for even 2knl anon games

You can't build a house from the roof. First you learn how to make the plays that make you money, and then that leads you to learn how to stop people like you from doing that to you.
RNGing for the sake of it is one of the worst things you can do, and the best in the world don't RNG as much as you think. Random 1k/2k regs probably RNG a lot more than Linus

Just finished a session with a guy who beats 1knl for 10bb/100 over a huge sample and he looked at me like I had two head when I said I didn't use an RNG for SBvsBB

What do I know though.

I said 500nl+ on ROW sites.

But the idea that you need to randomize at 500nl ignition to beat it at a good clip is laughable (and I've put some volume in that pool so)

And how is that red line coming along?

All I care about is the green line

You can insult a lot of things about me but not my results, esp considering you've been in this forum 3.5 yrs and only just made 100nl on iggy.

Don't think it's controversial to say you don't have to randomize at 500nl anon poker on ignition...

You literally come into EVERY one of my threads and post some nonsense. Who knows what your results are - it doesn't matter.

It just the superior attitude you have that rubs me the wrong way. Everyone is trying to learn here. Saying such and such is laughable or this and that is just passive aggressive bulls.hit and it isn't constructive in any way.

I relayed some of my 1 on 1 coaching session from a very good player and maybe it helped some people or maybe it didn't. But if it didn't then why are you responding to the thread?

The only reason I can think of is because you want to stroke your own ego. Just move along if you don't agree with it. I have a lot of reason to believe it though.

I have a lot of thoughts and I’ll elaborate later, but I hopped on 500nl for 30 seconds last night to see what was going on, and two players there had 40 bb stacks

They are public..


I gave a non-confrontational answer and you just posted a screenshot and gave a sarcastic comment



But my biggest problem is this -

I genuinely don't think you are trying to learn. You gave a long strategy post and when people disagreed with you you just cited some random coach we don't know and "refuted" everything. I just don't think you are open to changing your mind one bit and it's the same for hh reviews


Lastly,

You brought up my results, not me.

Yeah this was my main point. If you want to be a high stakes online poker player, you will 100% have to start RNGing certain spots to be more balanced. But 500nl on ignition (which is already super soft pool) AND it's anonymous it just doesn't make sense to devote time to learning BvB RNG when there are so many other leaks/exploits you can work on as well as just grinding

No clue where the logic comes from of me not trying to learn, I'm pretty open minded when someone tells me I did something incorrectly.

And every coach is random unless it is maybe a handful of people in the poker world. Especially online players, they are notoriously under the radar.

But I thought this post might give some perspective into how a high stakes player thought about poker. It wasn't supposed to be a debate on the veracity of the tactics and turn into a pissing contest.

The harsh truth is that everyone's opinion isn't equal.

Your opinion is more valuable than a beginners and Linus's opinion is more valuable than yours.

That's the hardest part about an open forum - you have to use your own judgement on who's advice to take seriously and who's advice to discard.

Do with the information as you wish. I'm sure someone will get some use out of it.

That's not accurate. The highest ceiling for improving your winrate is any spot that population doesn't know well. So SBvsBB is literally the spot to study over any other spot.

Didn't realize you had a blog. You are playing 50nl in your blog but you are speaking on 500nl like you are a regular.

Just because you played a stake once doesn't mean that is your stake. It is pretty disingenuous to act like that.

C’mon guys. You can just disagree on something without letting it become personal. Nobody cares and we all know you both just want to get better.

Yeah, I apologize doodoo. It's pretty clear that the way you and I look at poker is very different, and it clashes. I'm sorry if I presumed you had ulterior motives for posting.

That being said I was 200z/200nl reg on ACR/GG for a fair amount of hands (100k+) and from what I've heard that pool is tougher than 500nl on iggy so it's not like I don't have experience playing in tough pools

This is true, but the way in which you gain edge over people who can't play a spot is not necessarily to RNG better and play it closer to equilibrium, but to know how it's played and how others are misplaying it, and taking the most profitable lines as often as possible.

I appreciate the apology. I apologize too if I was being vindictive with my comments.