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Old 03-07-2009, 04:46 PM   #76
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

Man this thread is fawesome. I learned a ton from this. Thanks, Split.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:11 PM   #77
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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yeah i struggled too, i found this and it solved the problem; i am assuming you have the problem where it says it can't find comdlg32.ocx ?
Well, that fixed toe comdlg32.ocx problem now I get "FM20.DLL' missing or invalid. ARRRRGGGH, Microsoft DLL HELL.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:14 PM   #78
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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Man this thread is fawesome. I learned a ton from this. Thanks, Split.
no problem...glad you learned something!

funky...DL flopzilla instead. better and more useful program imo (the link is posted somewhere in this thread)
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:42 PM   #79
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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This is the hand I was talking about upthread--I think i said up there that I was suited, so my bad on that.

Anyway, villain in this hand was 3 betting me pretty much every orbit; in a pretty big sample his 3 bet raise % was 14%


...

OK, so he is 3 betting with 14% of his hands:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 55.232% 51.33% 03.91% 130071968 9898314.50 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 44.768% 40.86% 03.91% 103552395 9898314.50 { 77+, A8s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }


I'm significantly ahead of his range, so I 4 bet:

Hero raises to $25, BB raises to $50.45,


Now we have his 5 bet shove--at this point, his range is pretty polarized--he has a strong hand or he has a hand he is bluffing/semi-bluffing with, so his range looks like this, more or less (I just threw in some trash to represent the crap he might shove on a bluff):

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.265% 40.55% 00.71% 40273408 707897.50 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 58.735% 58.02% 00.71% 57624429 707897.50 { JJ+, 44, 22, AKs, 54s, AKo, 54o }


So now I am an underdog to his shoving range. But there's $75 in the pot and it is $25 to me, so I only need to win 1 time in 3 to break even. Since I actually win 40% of the time against this range, this is a profitable call.

...

Now, suppose I had only 4 bet to $18. This would have put $68 in the pot and it would have been $32 more for me to call. It would have been a much less profitable play for me to 4 bet to $18 and call a shove than it was for me to 4 bet to $25 and call a shove; this was why I 4 bet big, to give myself an easy call against even a very tight shoving range (and to maximize my fold equity).
Increasing your 4bet to make your shove call easier is only right if there is some increase in FE, right? (presumably this could be quantified with some FE numbers)

I'm trying to build this example in StoxEV. In your example, you add some hands to his shove range that were not in his 3bet range (e.g. 44, 22, 54). I think in StoxEV these new hands get ignored. Can anyone who uses StoxEV work this this example and suggest the correct approach?

Should the 3bet range be modified to be a superset of the 5bet shove while still being 14% of hands?
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:09 PM   #80
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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Increasing your 4bet to make your shove call easier is only right if there is some increase in FE, right? (presumably this could be quantified with some FE numbers)
pocket pairs are the nuts. that is all.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:59 AM   #81
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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Well, that fixed toe comdlg32.ocx problem now I get "FM20.DLL' missing or invalid. ARRRRGGGH, Microsoft DLL HELL.
Flopzilla is currently free and seems to be a reasonable alternative to Stox Poker Combo.
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:20 PM   #82
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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Man this thread is fawesome. I learned a ton from this. Thanks, Split.
+1

A question regarding the Continuation Range calculations after apprx. 1/4 of the video:
Do you or anybody else know if the HUD in PT3 can (maybe be programmed to) automatically show the equivalent of the 100 * (1 - 4.7/30) number as just another stat for Villain?
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:38 AM   #83
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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+1

A question regarding the Continuation Range calculations after apprx. 1/4 of the video:
Do you or anybody else know if the HUD in PT3 can (maybe be programmed to) automatically show the equivalent of the 100 * (1 - 4.7/30) number as just another stat for Villain?
Yes, with PT3 you can create pretty much any custom stat you want to. Probably the same with HEM.
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:11 PM   #84
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

Thanks for the video Split. I watched about 1/2 of the video. I am going to do some basic preflop range calculations, get a feel for pokerstove, know what I am doing in that regard and then continue with the video.

I must say, as a person who is rather new to 2+2, hearing the word "ev calculations" thrown around and hearing people say "use pokerstove" was very frustrating because I did not know how to use it. Thanks to you I am learning how to actually use it.

Thanks again for the thread
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:56 PM   #85
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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Thanks for the video Split. I watched about 1/2 of the video. I am going to do some basic preflop range calculations, get a feel for pokerstove, know what I am doing in that regard and then continue with the video.

I must say, as a person who is rather new to 2+2, hearing the word "ev calculations" thrown around and hearing people say "use pokerstove" was very frustrating because I did not know how to use it. Thanks to you I am learning how to actually use it.

Thanks again for the thread
no problem bud. glad its helping you out =)
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:52 AM   #86
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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I must say, as a person who is rather new to 2+2, hearing the word "ev calculations" thrown around
Get a copy of Mathematics of Poker and read the first few chapters -- they give a nice introduction to EV including (of course) a rigorous definition.

Unless you really like math you may prefer to borrow a copy from the library rather than buy the book. A lot of stuff (e.g. the [0,1] game) may not interest the average poker player.
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:20 AM   #87
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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Originally Posted by funkyj View Post
Get a copy of Mathematics of Poker and read the first few chapters -- they give a nice introduction to EV including (of course) a rigorous definition.

Unless you really like math you may prefer to borrow a copy from the library rather than buy the book. A lot of stuff (e.g. the [0,1] game) may not interest the average poker player.

I tried reading that book, it made my head hurt. That book is waaaaaaay over my head. Now thats too much math for me. I go to the library often, I will give it another look, its been awhile.

I was getting advice to do some "ev calculations" but no one was actually telling me how, until I saw split's video. I am going to go slowly so eventually I can do all the calculations and analyze away from the table the way the really good players do.

Thanks for the suggestion..
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:51 AM   #88
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

hey guys. GREAT AWSOME AMAZING thread. quite depressing in fact that i don't know/didn't know alot of this..and still i'm not sure i can take all this consideration when i play a hand..buuut still i think it pushed the learning players into the right direction!! THANKS **split**

side note: are you familiar with pokerazor?! it seems to be the soft is doing the same thing and even more but i can't really use it because im not that advanced and all. maybe you can give it a run for its money and post a video

thaaaanks
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:02 AM   #89
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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hey guys. GREAT AWSOME AMAZING thread. quite depressing in fact that i don't know/didn't know alot of this..and still i'm not sure i can take all this consideration when i play a hand..buuut still i think it pushed the learning players into the right direction!! THANKS **split**

side note: are you familiar with pokerazor?! it seems to be the soft is doing the same thing and even more but i can't really use it because im not that advanced and all. maybe you can give it a run for its money and post a video

thaaaanks
glad you enjoyed it =)

ive heard of pokerrazor and believe it is like StoxEV software. a little too complex for my liking...and complex in the way that at FR u rly dont need to go thru that much analysis per hand =)
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:37 AM   #90
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

Very nice post. Very good job on videos. I can not say that everything was completely new for me but i really learn a lot. Thanks

But Calculator + Notepad not cool, man, not cool. I think Excel spreadsheet can save you 80-90 procent of time) Just make a template for all situations, like blind stealing weighted ranges, profit analysis and use it.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:56 AM   #91
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Re: Concept of the Week: Equity Exploration

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Originally Posted by Sdodger View Post
Very nice post. Very good job on videos. I can not say that everything was completely new for me but i really learn a lot. Thanks

But Calculator + Notepad not cool, man, not cool. I think Excel spreadsheet can save you 80-90 procent of time) Just make a template for all situations, like blind stealing weighted ranges, profit analysis and use it.
thnk u =)

lol about notepad. i did it so ppl cud see what was going on easily. =)
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:14 AM   #92
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

I'm sorry but I'm a ******, I clicked on the link, then I clicked videos but I didn't see any on Pokerstove. Is it still up, what is the video's name?
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:52 PM   #93
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

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I'm sorry but I'm a ******, I clicked on the link, then I clicked videos but I didn't see any on Pokerstove. Is it still up, what is the video's name?
linky
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:17 PM   #94
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

OP fixed. thnx for helping andyhai
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:44 AM   #95
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

Hey I have question about the pocket 99s hand discussed in this thread. many seemed to do their homework and conclude (against a very wide spew reg range of anything from two overcards to gutshot to sets (i am not commenting on that)) that it was profitable to shove over the turn.

However why not do it on the flop? we have tons more equity, almost same amount of FE against his entire range, and so shouldn't we be raising the flop to 3x his flop bet and then give a much narrower range to his continuation and fold/call based on equity calculations? or may be just shove the flop?

I don't know how to do the math, but if somebody good show me that (by math) a flop raise and calling a shove is -EV then that would be nice.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:40 AM   #96
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

Split very nice video, thanks for linking it to me in the chat
You gotta be Canadian, eh ?
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Old 06-14-2009, 07:40 PM   #97
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

Dude, in the video your saying 4,7% of 30 is 16. Is this just some sort of misclick or am I just missing something?

Someone tell me plz, I`m dying to find out!
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:03 PM   #98
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

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Dude, in the video your saying 4,7% of 30 is 16. Is this just some sort of misclick or am I just missing something?

Someone tell me plz, I`m dying to find out!
No.

4.7% represents the continuance range of the given villain when he's 3b.
30% represents his entire steal range before he's 3b.

4.7 and 30 represent real numbers. How much of 30 (the entire amount) does 4.7 represent (the amount that continues)?

4.7/30 = .16, or 16%

So.....4.7% represents 16% of 30%. Or, 16% of 30% is 4.7%. Take off the percent signs. 16% of 30 is 4.

Does that make sense?
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:22 AM   #99
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

Just thought I'd post in this thread to say that I enjoyed the video.

I learned a lot, I'll be thinking about applying these concepts more in the future, and more-fearlessly playing with the tools I have available now.

(:
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:11 AM   #100
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Re: Concept of the Week #1: Equity Exploration

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Split very nice video, thanks for linking it to me in the chat
You gotta be Canadian, eh ?
Im not Canadian! did i say "ay" too many times? lol
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